I think we are probably on much the same page :-)
(Most, if not all, of my questions were actually rhetorical - sorry that was 
not clear.)
So you are thinking of instances as well - and of course, as instances are URIs 
like properties.
I of course make no assumption that skos:prefLabel is more "x:preferred" than 
skos:label - there are some words about it in the SKOS description, but the 
semantics of the word preferred are not defined, and might differ from the 
semantics for x:preferred.
I am quite happy to have either skos:prefLabel x:preferred skos:label or vice 
versa, although one way round is a bit strange to the human reader.
But I think I can use your x:preferred in the way I describe to select 
particular triples.
> The x:preferred approach would handle this at the ontology level, as 
> explained above - it would capture that when you have multiple values for :a 
> and a single value for :b, and that :b x:preferred :a, then the value for :b 
> is the preferred/canonical value out of those specified for :a.

I thought this described it, but now I am not certain I am quite clear:
For your example:
>  :foo rdfs:label "Michael"@en, "M. Jackson"@en, "Michael Jackson"@en ;
>       skos:prefLabel "Michael Jackson"@en ;

With
>  rdfs:label x:preferred skos:prefLabel .

I would get that :a is skos:prefLabel and :b is rdfs:label by substitution in 
your paragraph, but :a does not have multiple values.
So maybe you mean?:
skos:prefLabel x:preferred rdfs:label
In which case the multiple :a is rdfs:label and the single :b is skos:prefLabel

Anyway, which ever way round it is, is it that the intended meaning of
> rdfs:label x:preferred skos:prefLabel
 is that the (single) object of the skos:prefLabel triple ( "Michael 
Jackson"@en) is in some sense preferred?
Or is the :foo skos:prefLabel  "Michael Jackson"@en triple in some sense 
preferred?
Or probably something else?
(Not rhetorical :-) )
Best
Hugh

On 17 Jul 2012, at 16:38, Nathan <[email protected]>
 wrote:

> Hugh Glaser wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I think Nathan is talking about properties of properties, not instances.
> 
> I am, but not in the way you think (afaict).
> 
>> As a real example, in my Detail RBK/dotAC rendering I have (at least) the 
>> following predicates to look at for names:
>> (<http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name> 
>> <http://www.aktors.org/ontology/portal#full-name> 
>> <http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label> 
>> <http://www.rkbexplorer.com/ontologies/jisc#name> 
>> <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#prefLabel> 
>> <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#altLabel> 
>> <http://rdf.freebase.com/ns/type.object.name>)
>> I can either use these to gather all the names I can, or use it as an 
>> ordered list to get the one I prefer (if any) - it depends on the display I 
>> want to give.
> 
> Or you can use subPropertyOf entailment (rdfs7), when you apply it you'll 
> find you have an rdfs:label triple for each of the properties you listed, 
> other than portal#full-name.
> 
>> So I interpreted Nathan as asking if there was anything that allowed me to 
>> say what the preferred order of predicate choice might be.
> 
> This is where the confusion was, if you consider the following graph:
> 
>  :foo rdfs:label "Michael"@en, "M. Jackson"@en, "Michael Jackson"@en ;
>       skos:prefLabel "Michael Jackson"@en ;
> 
> As humans we know what "prefLabel" means, but a machine doesn't.
> 
> Another example:
> 
>  :foo owl:sameAs </things#foo>, <http://example.org/things/bits#foo> ;
>       con:preferredURI :foo .
> 
> As humans we again know to treat :foo as the canonical/preferred URI for this 
> thing (just as TimBL has in his foaf). Again, no machine understanding.
> 
> Thus I thought if we're going to have a proliferation of preferredXXXX style 
> properties, it would be good to have a single machine property that explained 
> this.
> 
> So for the two examples above you could have in the ontologies:
> 
>  rdfs:label x:preferred skos:prefLabel .
>  owl:sameAs x:preferred con:preferredURI .
> 
> Then machines could understand what we do too.
> 
>> Do I prefer <http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label> over 
>> <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#altLabel> for example (for my 
>> particular application)?
> 
> Your dealing with application display preferences here rather than specifying 
> in descriptions of things that it is known by several values (names,uris) and 
> this here one is (preferred, canonical) by the resource (or resource owner).
> 
>> How do I represent that is what I am doing to agents asking (in RDF/OWL of 
>> course)?
>> And how would a data publisher tell my consumer agent what they think I 
>> should prefer?
> 
> The x:preferred approach would handle this at the ontology level, as 
> explained above - it would capture that when you have multiple values for :a 
> and a single value for :b, and that :b x:preferred :a, then the value for :b 
> is the preferred/canonical value out of those specified for :a.
> 
>> In my case, following Nathan's email, I would have a chain of 
>> <http://www.aktors.org/ontology/portal#full-name> x:preferred 
>> <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/name> .
>> <http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#label> x:preferred  
>> <http://www.aktors.org/ontology/portal#full-name> .
>> etc.
>> Which would be the (meta)metadata about the service I am providing.
> 
> I think it may be more a case of capturing this using owl/rif/n3 - supposing 
> you have the data:
> 
>  :foo rdfs:label "Michael"@en, "M. Jackson"@en, "Michael Jackson"@en ;
>       foaf:name "Michael Jackson"@en ;
> 
> and in an ontology:
> 
>  rdfs:label x:preferred skos:prefLabel .
> 
> and you have a personal preference that says if a foaf:name and rdfs:label 
> are present for something, then the foaf:name is the preferred value, then 
> you can capture this with a rule like:
> 
> { ?t rdfs:label ?l ; foaf:name ?n } => { ?t skos:prefLabel ?n }
> 
> Using several rules of this kind you could capture all your preferences, and 
> your application would universally understand which to display - but over all 
> properties with multiple values where one is preferred, as :prop1 x:preferred 
> prop2 . would encode this.
> 
> Make sense?
> 
> Best, Nathan
> 
>> However, in some sense rdfs:subPropertyOf might imply this.
>> Were I loading the data into a store, rather than just doing pure Linked 
>> Data URI resolution, I would be able to assert the rdfs:subPropertyOf 
>> relation, which might be seen to suggest that the most specific property (is 
>> that the right terminology?) is a good one to choose.
>> I then have the challenge of doing a query that finds that out, of course.
>> I am guessing that from Nathan's meaning of  x:preferred, it would seem that
>> x:preferred rdfs:subPropertyOf rdfs:subPropertyOf .
>> By the way, if I only want one preferred property, I can look one of the 
>> properties up in a sameAs store such as sameAs.org to find out what the 
>> suggested canon is (and what the other predicates might be.)
>> Best
>> Hugh
>> On 16 Jul 2012, at 22:28, Tim Berners-Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Interesting to go meta on this with x:preferred .
>>> 
>>> What would be the meaning of "preferred" -- "preferred by the object itself 
>>> or
>>> the owner of the object itself"?
>>> 
>>> In other words, I wouldn't use it to store in a local store my preferred 
>>> names
>>> for people, that would be an abuse of the property.
>>> 
>>> Tim
>>> 
>>> On 2012-07 -15, at 19:42, Nathan wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Essentially what I'm looking for is something like
>>>> 
>>>> foaf:nick x:preferred foaf:preferredNick .
>>>> rdfs:label x:preferred foaf:preferredLabel .
>>>> owl:sameAs x:preferred x:canonical .
>>>> 
>>>> It's nice to have con:preferredURI and skos:prefLabel, but what I'm really 
>>>> looking for is a way to let machines know that x value is preferred.
>>>> 
>>>> Anybody know if such a property exists yet?
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> 
>>>> Nathan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
> 


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