Thanks, this is brilliant! I did not know you were moving open source,
we might just contribute some attempt to do that RDF support.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Gudmundur A. Thorisson
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all. Thanks a bunch to @hvdsomp for highlighting this discussion on 
> Twitter earlier.
>
> Here's a collective response from the ORCID camp, which includes Laure 
> (executive director), Laura (technical director),  Rob (lead developer), 
> myself and others involved in day-to-day operations in one way or another.
>
>
> First, on a purely technical level,  Stian's absolutely correct that the 
> central ORCID systemis misbehaving by stating it's returning RDF, when it's 
> actually responding with XML. I'll submit a bug report and try and push to 
> get this fixed ASAP, to avoid further confusion. Actually, strike that: looks 
> like Rob is already on it (see Github info below).
>
> Second,  concerning RDF support more generally, we are aware that Linked Data 
> interop is becoming increasingly important.  There have been  discussions 
> around this topic within the ORCID project but, as noted earlier on this 
> thread, there simply isn't bandwidth to address this need right now. ORCID 
> plans to start working on RDF requirements later this year, and welcomes 
> community input into the process.
>
> Highly relevant to this, a major recent development is that ORCID's code is 
> now open source and the community can participate in helping to address 
> issues such as this one. More info here:
>
> http://orcid.org/blog/2013/02/21/orcid-open-source
> http://orcid.org/about/community/orcid-technical-community
> https://github.com/ORCID/ORCID-Source <-- for those who like to get straight 
> to the business of coding!
>
> Also, this just arrived from Github:
>
> On 12.3.2013, at 17:47, Robert Peters <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Subject: [ORCID-Source] Stop matching wild on wild card (#40)
>
>> Pushing this out early just so external people can see what is going on.
>>.
>> 1) Still need to do some nginx work on production
>> 2) Still need to do more integration testing.
>   ...
>> Or view, comment on, or merge it at:
>> https://github.com/ORCID/ORCID-Source/pull/40
>
>
>
>
> Hope this helps!
>
>
>
> Don't hesitate to get in touch, either directly (Laure <[email protected]>, 
> Laura <[email protected]>, Rob <[email protected]> or myself) or via the 
> feedback/support website at http://support.orcid.org .
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>                 Mummi
>
> --
>  Gudmundur A. Thorisson, PhD
>  Project manager, ORCID - http://orcid.org | ODIN project - 
> http://odin-project.eu
>  Project manager, Institute of Life and Environmental Sciences, University of 
> Iceland - http://luvs.hi.is
>  Open Access Iceland - http://opinnadgangur.is
>  http://gthorisson.name | http://orcid.org/0000-0001-5635-1860 | 
> http://twitter.com/gthorisson
>
>
>
> On 12.3.2013, at 17:01, Alan Ruttenberg <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Stian Soiland-Reyes 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> (Thanks anyone for helpful comments!)
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Alan Ruttenberg
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Not to be too much of a stickler, but that isn't a spec, and isn't a clear
>> > statement. For instance the scope of "unique" isn't clear, and I can, with
>> > little effort, imagine a scenario where that uniqueness means that no two
>> > researchers have the same identifier (but can have more than one), but they
>> > identify names, and that the "transparent" method is that they have
>> > equivalences among the names.
>>
>> Just to clarify ; ORCIDs are (at least now) claimed by authors
>> themselves, so for instance me (as on
>> http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718 ) covers both publications by
>> "Stian Soiland-Reyes" and my previous name "Stian Soiland" (which is
>> listed as 'Also known as').
>>
>> Now unlike the various J Smith's, I'm quite lucky in that my new name
>> is (so far!) unique in the world, but without ORCID there could be
>> trouble ahead if my son (same initial S) would become a scientist.
>>
>>
>>
>> > As for the comments about ORCIDS not being suitable for linked data, that 
>> > is
>> > a very narrow view. Having a large system of person identifiers that many
>> > organizations agree they will use means that there's the possibility of
>> > linking what the people do very easily. That ORCID itself doesn't supply
>> > resolvable URIs (yet) doesn't mean that others can't use those identifiers
>> > when publishing information as linked data. And if they do it will be very
>> > very useful.
>>
>> Exactly, this is why we want to use ORCID! :)
>>
>> The current problem is that the URIs ARE resolvable, and they DO claim
>> to return application/rdf+xml although it is not - so it seems like a
>> bit of a disconnect with the whole web architecture regardless of them
>> exposing RDF or not.
>>
>> It's just an error. They can and will fix it, I'm sure - they are pretty new 
>> and I expect overburdened at the moment. Have you all made sure that they 
>> have received the feedback (and suggested resolution) through the 
>> appropriate channels?
>>
>>
>>
>> > So back to clarification. We need to know what the ORCID identifies
>> > (pair(name, person) or person), and what the definitive URI is for that
>> > ORCID. (let's have one case be UO1)
>>
>> I agree that both of these should be clearly specified by ORCID.  It
>> is not the pair with the name, as I have shown for my own profile; but
>> it's unclear if an ORCID identifies a person (me) or a scientist (ie.
>> could I put my ORCID as the creator of my family photos?).
>>
>> Well, you have shown a use that is not that. But that doesn't define how it 
>> will in fact be interpreted.
>>
>>
>> I know such nitpicking that could go very deep ("me yesterday with a
>> red t-shirt!") - but some clarification is needed to know if we can
>> call them foaf:Person's or just something related to such persons.
>>
>> It needs to go as deep as necessary. But certainly knowing that these are 
>> identifers for foaf:Person's, and there will be no more than one per 
>> foaf:Person solves much of the issue. Note, however, that foaf itself is a 
>> bit problematic, as the doc says a foaf:Person can be imaginary, and a) I 
>> don't know what an imaginary person is b) I don't think ORCID contemplates 
>> imaginary researchers - how would an imaginary person claim their ORCID?
>>
>>
>> (For instance, W3C PROV has the concept of prov:specializationOf which
>> could be appropriate on a prov:Person, for instance when the person
>> prov:actedOnBehalfOf an organization.
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/#specializationOf - in this model the
>> ORCID URI can still identify an agent).
>>
>> I don't understand this comment. I don't want to get into too much of a 
>> conversation about PROV, but clearly, in the world we live in, that 
>> "specialization" is still the same Person. I would therefore expect there to 
>> be one, not two ORCIDs even though there are two "web" instances.
>>
>>
>> > I would then expect many other groups to publish information whose
>> > foaf:primaryTopic is what the above URI identifies.
>>
>> OK.. so to take Kingsleys example you would expect my server
>> example.com (which has nothing to do with orcid) to say:
>>
>>
>> > GET http://example.com/stian.rdf HTTP/1.1
>>
>> 200 OK HTTP/1.1
>> Content-Type: text/turtle
>>
>> <> a foaf:PersonalProfileDocument ;
>>   foaf:primaryTopic <http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718> ;
>>
>> <http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718> a foaf:Person ;
>>    foaf:name "Stian Soiland-Reyes" .
>>
>>
>> Looks reasonable to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>>
>> I thought a foaf:PersonalProfileDocument was one which foaf:maker was
>> its foaf:primaryTopic. Now I feel I can't go and make "personal" FOAF
>> profiles for people I find in ORCID - so I can do the above in my own
>> FOAF file, but I can't do that when I simply want to talk about
>> someone else.
>>
>> Sure. "The PersonalProfileDocument class represents those things that are a 
>> Document, and that use RDF to describe properties of the person who is the 
>> maker of the document. There is just one Person described in the document, 
>> ie. the person who made it and who will be its primaryTopic."
>>
>> But you can make other classes of document that are like 
>> PersonalProfileDocument but without the constraint that the document creator 
>> is the same as the primary topic. PersonalProfileDocument would be subclass 
>> of those class. You (or foaf) could even add an axiom that says all 
>> instances of PersonalProfileDocument are created by the same as the primary 
>> topic. You would then have a clear differentia between your broader class 
>> and PersonalProfileDocument
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stian Soiland-Reyes, myGrid team
>> School of Computer Science
>> The University of Manchester
>>
>
>
>



-- 
Stian Soiland-Reyes, myGrid team
School of Computer Science
The University of Manchester

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