On 2/19/15 10:32 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:
Hello Paul,let me put this into two simple statements: 1) There is no canonical ordering of triples 2) A good triple editor should reflect this by letting the user determine the order Regards, Michael Brunnbauer
Yes! Kingsley
On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 03:50:33PM +0100, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:Hello Paul, I am not so sure if this is good enough. If you add something to the end of a list in a UI, you normally expect it to stay there. If you accept that it will be put in its proper position later, you may - as user - still have trouble figuring out where that position is (even with the heuristics you gave). The problem repeats with the triple object if the properties have been ordered. As user, you might feel even more compelled to introduce a deviant ordering on this level. Regards, Michael Brunnbauer On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 09:07:37AM -0500, Paul Houle wrote:There are quite a few simple heuristics that will give "good enough" results, consider for instance: (1) order predicates by alphabetical order (by rdfs:label or by localname or the whole URL) (2) order predicates by some numerical property given by a custom predicate in the schema (3) order predicates by the type of the domain alphabetically, and then order by the name of the predicates (4) work out the partial ordering of types by inheritance so "Person" winds up at the top and "Actor" shows up below that Freebase does something like (4) and that is "good enough". On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 8:01 AM, Kingsley Idehen <[email protected]> wrote:On 2/19/15 4:52 AM, Michael Brunnbauer wrote:Hello Paul, an interesting aspect of such a system is the ordering of triples - even if you restrict editing to one subject. Either the order is predefined and the user will have to search for his new triple after doing an insert or the user determines the position of his new triple. In the latter case, the app developer will want to use something like reification - at least internally. This is the point when the app developer and the Semantic Web expert start to disagree ;-)Not really, in regards to "Semantic Web expert starting to disagree" per se. You can order by Predicate or use Reification. When designing our RDF Editor, we took the route of breaking things down as follows: Book (Named Graph Collection e.g. in a Quad Store or service that understands LDP Containers etc..) --> (contains) --> Pages (Named Graphs) -- Paragraphs (RDF Sentence/Statement Collections). The Sentence/Statement Collections are the key item, you are honing into, and yes, it boils down to: 1. Grouping sentences/statements by predicate per named graph to create a paragraph 2. Grouping sentences by way of reification where each sentence is identified and described per named graph. Rather that pit one approach against the other, we simply adopted both, as options. Anyway, you raise a very important point that's generally overlooked. Ignoring this fundamental point is a shortcut to hell for any editor that's to be used in a multi-user setup, as you clearly understand :) KingsleyMaybe they can compromise on a system with a separate named graph per triple (BTW what is the status of blank nodes shared between named graphs?). Regards, Michael Brunnbauer On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 03:08:33PM -0500, Paul Houle wrote:I am looking at some cases where I have databases that are similar to Dbpedia and Freebase in character, sometimes that big (ok, those particular databases), sometimes smaller. Right now there are no blank nodes, perhaps there are things like the "compound value types" from Freebase which are sorta like blank nodes but they have names, Sometimes I want to manually edit a few records. Perhaps I want to delete a triple or add a few triples (possibly introducing a new subject.) It seems to me there could be some kind of system which points at a SPARQL protocol endpoint (so I can keep my data in my favorite triple store) and given an RDFS or OWL schema, automatically generates the forms so I can easily edit the data. Is there something out there? -- Paul Houle Expert on Freebase, DBpedia, Hadoop and RDF (607) 539 6254 paul.houle on Skype [email protected] http://legalentityidentifier.info/lei/lookup-- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Founder & CEO OpenLink Software Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com Personal Weblog 1: http://kidehen.blogspot.com Personal Weblog 2: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen Twitter Profile: https://twitter.com/kidehen Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen Personal WebID: http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/person/kidehen#this-- Paul Houle Expert on Freebase, DBpedia, Hadoop and RDF (607) 539 6254 paul.houle on Skype [email protected] http://legalentityidentifier.info/lei/lookup-- ++ Michael Brunnbauer ++ netEstate GmbH ++ Geisenhausener Straße 11a ++ 81379 München ++ Tel +49 89 32 19 77 80 ++ Fax +49 89 32 19 77 89 ++ E-Mail [email protected] ++ http://www.netestate.de/ ++ ++ Sitz: München, HRB Nr.142452 (Handelsregister B München) ++ USt-IdNr. DE221033342 ++ Geschäftsführer: Michael Brunnbauer, Franz Brunnbauer ++ Prokurist: Dipl. Kfm. (Univ.) Markus Hendel
-- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Founder & CEO OpenLink Software Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com Personal Weblog 1: http://kidehen.blogspot.com Personal Weblog 2: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen Twitter Profile: https://twitter.com/kidehen Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen Personal WebID: http://kingsley.idehen.net/dataspace/person/kidehen#this
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