On 8 Feb 2012, at 10:31, Bronislav Klučka wrote:

> 
> 
> On 8.2.2012 1:06, Jean-Claude Dufourd wrote:
>> On 7/2/12 05:31 , Robin Berjon wrote:
>>> The first problem is that of the security model. A lot of smart people have 
>>> tried to come up with a lot of different solutions here, often involving 
>>> signatures, policies, intricate user interfaces, etc. I think that's all 
>>> massively over-engineered. Once you take into account the fact that the 
>>> number of applications that actually need this level of privilege is only a 
>>> tiny fraction of the whole, you realise that you can just give up on 
>>> privilege policies. These are just regular apps: they have unfettered 
>>> access — period (within the limits of the underlying platform's permissions 
>>> system naturally). They ought to be harder (and unusual) to install, and 
>>> maybe should look different, but that's it. We might want to give them 
>>> strong CSP protection by default to defend against XSS attacks, but that's 
>>> a detail.
>>> 
>> JCD: I strongly disagree with you there, Robin. I do not see why "installed 
>> apps" should have more access. "Normal apps" and "installed apps" should 
>> have the same security model, but "installed apps" may have permanently 
>> remembered security clearances, and that could be the only difference.
>> My proposal is as simplistic as yours, but in the opposite direction. You 
>> are saying "installed apps" should have all rights, I am saying "installed 
>> apps" should obey the exact same security as "normal apps".
>> In your system, it is dangerous to install an app, but it is very simple. In 
>> mine, there is no danger, but it is a bit more work.
>> Having a difference between installed apps and normal apps is actually 
>> counter-productive.
>> Java tried that for applets, and Java is now gone from the web apps stage.
>> Best regards
>> JC
>> 
> 
> Hi
> just let me quote from this thread
> -------------------------------------------------
> Tim Berners-Lee:
> 
>  There of course places where XHR is used and there is no
>  cross-sitescripting security needed
> 
>  1)  in a browser extension
>  2)  in node.js code trusted apps
> 
> Ian Hickson:
> 
>  These aren't the Web, so they're probably out of scope of the CORS and XHR
>  specs, but Anne can comment if he disagrees.
> -------------------------------------------------
> 
> you are one step ahead, firt we need to define, what we want, whether we want 
> web platform (remote access to some data and sometimes being able to 
> manipulate those data with very limited set of APIs) or whether we want 
> actual multi-platform application framework with browser as run-time 
> environment, because there is still a lot of missing and there is apparently 
> disagreement about what should be govern by w3c/whatwg. I'm all for the 
> second option: full programming environment. But that is the first here (and 
> with MS extensions to JS APIs in Metro applications...). And without any 
> distinction between whether the app run locally or whether the UI and data 
> are accessed remotely or any possible combination of UI and data access 
> mechanism.
> 
> And the question of granting rights seems to be fairly decided here, 
> everything potentially dangerous has to be granted by user (e.g. FileSystem 
> API, GeoLocation), and if UA can provide more granular way of managing data 
> and rights (not "remove browsing data" and suddenly everything for every page 
> is gone), we can stick with this principle: HTML, CSS, basic JS is fine... 
> anything else must be granted.

Right, and so far we haven't had a generic model for how that is done, instead 
individual specs have had to define it (as in your examples).

WebIntents potentially offers a generic model for apps requesting data while 
keeping the user in the loop, and one that would work both for websites/hosted 
apps/normal apps and widgets/installed apps/system apps. 


> 
> 
> Brona
> 
> 
> 


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