The Draft minutes from WebApps' November 12 f2f meeting [Agenda] are at
the following and copied below:
<http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html>
Corrections, comments, etc., are welcome.
Thanks very much to the various scribes.
-AB
[Agenda] <http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/November2013Meeting>
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
WebApps F2F Meeting @ TPAC 2013
12 Nov 2013
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/November2013Meeting#Agenda_Tuesday_November_12
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-irc
Attendees
Present
Shenzhen, +1.650.397.aaaa, dglazkov, Arnaud_Braud,
Art_Barstow, Charles_Nevile, Travis_Leithead,
Adrian_Bateman, Eliot_Graff, Xiaoqian_Wu,
Gary_Kacmarcik, Adam_Boyet, Ryosuke_Niwa, Jungkee_Song,
Takayoshi_Kochi, Ted_OConnor, Erika_Doyle_Navara,
Jonas_Sicking, Alex_Russell, Dimitr_Glazkov(phone)
Regrets
Chair
Art, Chaals
Scribe
Art, Travis
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Admin, Agenda Setting
2. [6]Technical Difficulties...
3. [7]Web Components
4. [8]Test Interopt
5. [9]Server Sent Events
6. [10]Web Messaging
7. [11]Web Sockets
8. [12]Web Workers
9. [13]Testing
10. [14]Writing Tests
* [15]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
<scribe> Scribe: Art
Admin, Agenda Setting
AB: this morning we will talk about Web Components
… Dimitri will join us from Mtn View
… and Dominc from Tokyo
… After the morning break we will talk about Testing and
Interop
AB: we will start Web Components @ 09:30
<dglazkov> trying...
<Travis> Scribe: Travis
<scribe> Scribenick: Travis
Technical Difficulties...
<ArtB> denis, how do we get the Shenzhen conf room to attach to
this new bridge?
Web Components
<ArtB>
[16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2013OctD
ec/0042.html
[16]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2013OctDec/0042.html
ArtB: Please take a minute or two to give us a status update
dglazkov: Things are mostly unchanged.
... custom elements have made pretty good progress--kinks
worked out.
... next step is a CR-ready doc.
... the basics are there, everything else is additive.
... Shadow DOM keeps going on--perhaps this year it can get to
completion
... custom elements may provide something that is simple and
good.
... Shadow DOM has been taking over by ???, who is aligning
with DOM4
... also switching it to ReSpec
... I'm focusing on custom elements.
<ArtB> s/taking over by???/taking over by
mailto:[email protected]/
ArtB: Switching over to ryosuke
<ArtB>
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2013OctD
ec/0418.html -> Ryosuke's email
[17]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2013OctDec/0418.html
Ryosuke: Highlights key points from email.
dglazkov: Reviewed the email today, and want to address each
point, time might be short.
... sounds like you have the right motivation, but cutting out
some pieces that we care about to. We want to build something
that works in both cases: same origin and cross-origin.
Ryosuke: we think the current design makes cross-origin use
cases much harder.
dglazkov: I think there are ways to do it (via Imports)
<rniwa> Travis: s/Ryosuke/Ryosuke/
dglazkov: I think you're looking for encapsulation around
shadow dom
... mozilla researchers came up with an elegant solutions for
+1 buttons with trusted/untrusted code.
... was hoping we'd taken everything we wrote down and make
something good out of it.
Ryosuke: our concern is with the specs going to last call.
dglazkov: There is no changes to custom elements--these specs
are all de-coupled.
... I responded to your proposal, and there is one thing I
don't think we should do
... the callback proposal.
<ArtB>
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2013OctD
ec/0436.html -> Dimitri's reply to Ryosuke
[18]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2013OctDec/0436.html
Ryosuke: Our concern is more about the HTML Imports;
document.register, seems fine-no objections.
dglazkov: This spec needs to cook a lot more.
Ryosuke: let's chat about html imports
Jonas: I have the same concern about how this runs script
... same concern as apple, that imports run scripts in
importing docuement. Seems like same mistake with script tags
... it's security issue,
... but bigger problem is bad comm protocol.
... this the impetus for ES6 modules pattern. We should reuse
some of these ideas in Html imprts.
dglazkov: You should raise this concern
... please raise the concern on the mailing list
... there there be dragons.
... the polymer folks were starting to work on this, so they'll
have more expertise.
... I can set general outcome expectations
... imports in same origin--originally we didn't want to run
script at all.
... at first imports was like template only
... then it's changed.
... we a providing a good solution to a tricky problem
Ryosuke: we're open to the idea of accessing global doc in
imported doc.
... for same origin of course.
... the imported doc can execute any script by default doesn't
play with x-origin case.
... with same origin component, you could use x-origin
component with having to completely change the way it behaves.
dglazkov: I don't have a ready solution. Need to outline how to
address it.
... with imports, you can add other imports (same or x-origin)
... we have some ideas.
... generally problem with imports...
... version management was an issue for bootstrap people.
... I could do so much more--provide stylesheets for the
document via imports.
... etc.
... I could bring in all the scaffolding...
... as long as we provide a solution to these guys [bootstrap]
then I'll be happy.
slightlyoff: history context:
... imports work today unifies cross-and-same origin imports.
... they are the same
... just like script include
... and it can do what it likes.
... this is how the web works.
... this is how Alex has a job.
... we've thought about how web component system can create a
security barrier.
... layout and script boundaries
... basically need what iframes offer.
... I think we can solve this orthogonally.
... shouldn't block web components.
... if we can decompose the essense of iframe separation, we
likely can integrate a solution
<slightlyoff> note that I'm not arguing that iframes are the
answer
ryosuke: we thought about using seamless iframe for a solution
... except that with a lot of them...
... there are multiple (20-30 iframes)
... not a scalable solution.
... with separate solutions for same origin and cross-origin
... this is bad, we want one solution for both
hober: to echo jonas
... we are learning lessons doing modules
... (from modules)
slightlyoff: I support the idea/goal
... yes, iframes aren't scalable
... mutual auth wrt global access seems reasonable
... we don't have ES6 modules yet.
... so it seems premature to design a system before this.
... I support the goals, etc., but we should revisit after we
have ES6 modules
jonas: html imports are only in one browser
slightlyoff: seems like an alignment with modules, so we should
work on the one before the other.
hober: no reason to gate one on the other, they both should
proceed together.
slightlyoff: I would want them ordered.
ryusuke: we would like ES6 module + imports to be consistent
with each other.
... I don't think we need to fully wait for one to wait on the
other.
slightlyoff: Yep. Agree
... TC39 process produces a completely integrated spec draft,
after which it takes a little while to get to "rec"
<hober> expanding on that: as we work on both, we find and fix
incompatibilities. no one is proposing that the platform should
have incompatibles mechanism
slightlyoff: something closer to CR may be approximately early
next year.
... I don't want to get too far ahead of this.
... we should consider imports with modules together.
... let's avoid crazy vortexes.
dglazkov: +1 on imports + module consistency
hober: violent agreement.
ryosuke: our big concern was if html imports went forward
today, we have big concerns with x-origin use cases.
... if things slow down, then we can make sure this is done
right.
dglazkov: We need to figure out what those x-origin issues are,
merge them, and move forward.
... ryosuke: please drive this!
jonas: I think module discussion and x-origin are unrelated
<slightlyoff> so the other analogs are workers
<slightlyoff> and we don't have workers that have renderers
jonas: want to figure out the x-origin story. Seems hard.
... whatever we create may seem a lot like iframes, or use a
lot of the same primitives
<slightlyoff> so if we had a RenderWorker that had the ability
to have some sort of DOM view to it, that'd be workable, but
again, we don't have that infrastructure
jonas: dosen't seem like a blocker (to me).
dglazkov: Want to write down this proposal.
... sync with web app sec.
... should start looking at x-origin use cases.
ryosuke: new topic (slighty)--templates
... chatted with rafael, etc.
... want to do mustache syntax in templates.
dglazkov: Seems just outside my scope.... may need to work with
rafael.
hober: You're comfortable addressing mustache syntax in
templates?
dglazkov: Yes, YES, YES!!!
... very comfortable.
... I suspect that we'll hear that there isn't one way to do
this
... (it'll be hard to land on "the right one")
hober: not married to the double {{
ryosuki: that's all
Chaals: no further questions..
?
dglazkov: Keep up the good work
<rniwa> dglazkov: thanks!
Travis: Microsoft hasn't looked in depth at this yet.
<aboyet> scribenick: aboyet
<ArtB> Scribe+ Adam
Test Interopt
artb: wanted to go through specs and what it's going to take to
get to next steps
... first one IndexDB
… last college about 6 months ago, Alex agreed test facilitor
for that spec
… have ~7 requests for IDB and not seemed to be reviewed yet,
anybody give status of this?
adrianba: believe the work alex has been doing is moved away
from IDB, we'd be happy with help on it
<ArtB> ACTION: barstow find another Test Facilitator for IDB
spec [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-704 - Find another test facilitator
for idb spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2013-11-19].
artb: will record action to find test person
…. can anybody here to volunteer to help with the IDB testing
effort ?
… curious what Mozilla's level of interest is for this
… need to review PRs for IDB as well
<ArtB>
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps-testsuit
e/2013Oct/0013.html -> IDB Pull Requests for tests
[20]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps-testsuite/2013Oct/0013.html
… 4 diff pull request during test web forward paris event
…. first step for interop is to try to agree on the set of
tests, until we get review then we don't have a basis
… really pleading to get people to step for review
james: think there are some overlap in tests from microsoft
tests and opera tests
…. other submissions are smaller, so not as much as it looks
like there
artb: thanks for clarification …. we need somebody as test
facilitator for IDB, won't be able to move forward in interop
until tests are reviews
… anything else (to the crowd)
Server Sent Events
artb: not too far off from having 2 impls passing the tests,
tina has done some good works in analyzing the failures
… so there are 5 test failures preventing from going to
recommendation. from chrome and firefox
james: it looks like there are some common failures … maybe it
could be a change to the spec then to fix both of them but
depends if failing for same reason so some sluething needs to
occur, OK scratch all of that
… it's an interaction with a second spec
chaals: maybe small enough bugs or known bug from before
… just need to look in to the bugs an tina could provide more
<ArtB> ACTION: talk to Tina about how to make progress on SSE
interop [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Error finding 'talk'. You can review and register
nicknames at <[22]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/users>.
[22] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/users%3E.
artb: what about the timeout one failing is actually a test
case issue instead … will talk to tina about it
james: have a feeling these were opera test originally … zzzz
is around here could ask him
artb: anything else on event source?
Web Messaging
artb: have alex as test facilitator , adrian is alex able to
help with this one ?
adrian: talked to chris, his opinion is we have a good enough
set of test for web messaging an there is interop here.
… while still some failures looks like there might be some need
investigation
… propose give me action to talk to chris
<ArtB> ACTION: bateman followup with KrisK re WebMessaging test
results [23]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebMessaging
[recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action03]
[23] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebMessaging
<trackbot> Created ACTION-705 - Followup with krisk re
webmessaging test results
[25]http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/webmessaging on
Adrian Bateman - due 2013-11-19].
[25] http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/webmessaging
artb: anymore ?
... ok next up
Web Sockets
artb: Kris is test faciliator i went ahead and ran these, some
timeouts towards the end of the tests maybe a problem with the
tests themselves
james: yeah, that looks wrong, the web sockets test have
historically had issues there
… suggest re-running tests to improve things
adrianba: may have some issues with network configs etc. proxy
server
… conclusion we had they were until there were changes to
people impls there were issues that still needed to be
addressed
… still a question about how importatn are those test in grand
scheme
artb: what is reasonable next step?
… does it make sense to have Kris eval what is there and make a
recommendation?
adrainba: don't think they are bogus, the opera tests added
added additional coverage
… one option would be to analyze the current coverage of the
tests and what the failures are a resulting from
james: think those results are misleading, just ran the tests
on gecko and we are def. getting some passes where those
results are getting timeouts
… just for anybody looking at the screen and seeing red
artb: would you be willing to update the gecko results?
james: yeah but there is a problem with running the secure
tests so get timeout for anything that runs the ssl tests but
can update for non-ssl tests
artb: leaves somebody to run the chrome ones again, anybody
from opera
richt: yeah we could run them again
<ArtB> ACTION: pieters run the Web Sockets tests and put
results in
[26]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebSockets recorded
in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action04]
[26] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebSockets
<trackbot> Created ACTION-706 - Run the web sockets tests and
put results in
[28]http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets on Simon
Pieters - due 2013-11-19].
[28] http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets
<ArtB> ACTION: bateman Run the web sockets tests and put
results in
[29]http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets recorded
in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action05]
[29] http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets
<trackbot> Created ACTION-707 - Run the web sockets tests and
put results in
[31]http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets on
Adrian Bateman - due 2013-11-19].
[31] http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets
<ArtB> ACTION graham Run the web sockets tests and put results
in [32]http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets
[32] http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets
<trackbot> Created ACTION-708 - Run the web sockets tests and
put results in
[33]http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets on James
Graham - due 2013-11-19].
[33] http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets
artb: anybody willing to run chrome tests?
<ArtB> ACTION Run the web sockets tests and put results in
[34]http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets for
Chrome
[34] http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets
<trackbot> Error finding 'Run'. You can review and register
nicknames at <[35]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/users>.
[35] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/users%3E.
richt: i'll talk to simonp about running chromium tests
Web Workers
artb: have an interop table but not tests have been run it
seems
… does any implementation implement ?
… if the answer is no then probably not worthwhile to run tests
james: i know gecko doesn't ….. i don't know about others
alex: not authoritative on this topic ….there are issues with
some stuff but not aware of all of them
chaals: but does sound like worth running tests suite
… on chrome
artb: any volunteers to run it ?
kinuko: I can run them
<ArtB> ACTION: kinuko run the Workers tests on Chrome and put
results in
[36]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebWorkers recorded
in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action06]
[36] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebWorkers
<trackbot> Error finding 'kinuko'. You can review and register
nicknames at <[38]http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/users>.
[38] http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/track/users%3E.
adrianba: feeling like ground hogs day on this
… it seems like almost every tpac we have this same
conversation
artb: a tpac or two ago I proposed the same thing and got
bashed for it; , would need somebody to step up to do the
editorial work
chaals: anybody think that would be a fun thing to do and use
the delete key all over the spec
travis: volunteers to take that up
<ArtB> ACTION: travis remove the Shared Workers from the
Workers spec [recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-709 - Remove the shared workers from
the workers spec [on Travis Leithead - due 2013-11-19].
artb: it still makes sense to run the tests then
… thats all i had for interop and testing
chaals: gives travis some crazy bottle
<myakura> <br backat="1:30" />
Testing
<ArtB> AB: thanks James for leading this session!
<ArtB> Scribe+ ArtB
<ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
JG: this afternoon is mainly about testing
… it's important for a number of reasons
… needed for advancement to REC
… but more importantly, we need tests to get the interop we
want
… deviations in impls means web devs hate us
… and then they write native apps instead
… Although we have in WebApps some tests, we are having
problems getting some tests reviewed
… and without review, the tests are not "accpeted"
… So, I'll take about Test Review this afternoon
[ James shows slide regarding Reasons for Test Review ]
JG: 1. Check tests are correct per spec
… 2. Check tests are written robustly
… 3. Check for style issues that will make tests fragile or
hard to run
… 4. Ensure tests are not using server-side script in a
malicious way
JG: don't want someone from outside of W3C doing bad stuff like
%rm -rf /
… I'll start with some tools for test review
… Re test review @ w3c
… Start by cloning web-platform-tests (on GH)
… We have many Pull Requests (PR) now
… The simplest tool is to use GH directly
… and just add a comment to a commit
… GH can show raw diff
… Just click on a line number and then add a comment
… (Here's an example PR:
[40]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/63)
[40] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/63)
… It's hard to know if a comment has been addressed
… Also hard to know if a review is complete or not
… Although GH for code review is ok, it isn't always power
enough, especially for more complicated reviews
JR: we have the "Critic" tool or Opera Critic for reviews
… [41]https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/home
[41] https://critic.hoppipolla.co.uk/home
… Opera created this because other code review tools were not
sufficient for some uses
… it can be a bit intimidating at first
… Critic use GH credentials (via OAuth)
… It will try to complete a profile for you
… At a minimum, need to fill in your email to get notifications
… For reviewers, can configure it so that it only shows reviews
for those reviews of interest
… (unlike GH which has a very coarse notification system)
… Go to Filters and then Add filter to set selections
… < James shows a Critic review >
… Even if you haven't created a filter, you can still submit a
comment
… One main advantage of Critic is that it says, on a per file
and per commit basis, the percentage of the review that is
complete
… it also tracks the review issues that are still open
… One question then is, how do I do the review?
… Can select the commit to review
… If a review has a bunch of commits, can select all of the
commits and then see all of the proposed changes for the entire
review
JG: If issues are raised, they must be closed before a PR can
be merged/closed
… when submitting a comment, can differentiate "Issues" from
"Notes"
… It is also possible with Critic to make an Issue span more
than one line of code
JG: if someone wants to use Critic with a PR, please let me
… I think it has significant advantages over GH's review
feature
RN: is critic feedback sent to GH?
JG: no, think that would result in lots of e-mail
RN: it would be nice if GH and Critic could sync
JG: that's possible but probably not trivial
… think it would result in an annoying amount of emails
… In practice, that hasn't been a problem so far
JG: those are the two tools for code review
… The next Q is, "what should I be looking for?"
… the TestTWF site has all of the appropriate docs
<aboyet> [42]http://testthewebforward.org/
[42] http://testthewebforward.org/
JG: < Displays Slide for Test Review Checklist >
… Use most specific assert possible
<rhauck2> [43]http://testthewebforward.org/docs/
[43] http://testthewebforward.org/docs/
… Make it clear if there is an "Expected Failure"
… Dont use internal timeouts unless they are unavoidable.
Prefer events
… Use idlharness.js where possible to check WebIDL-derived
assertions
… External resources must not be used
<rhauck2> this checklist should be integrated here:
[44]http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html
[44] http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html
… Check files don't have the executable bit set if not
necessary
… Ensure server-side code does not do anything malicious
<scribe> ACTION: graham integrate Test Checklist with
[45]http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html
[recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action08]
[45] http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html
<trackbot> Created ACTION-710 - Integrate test checklist with
[47]http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html on
James Graham - due 2013-11-19].
[47] http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html
… I've recently submitted a PR to remove PHP
<rniwa> rhauck2: do you know what's happening there?
JG: < Code Style slide >
… Avoid trailing whitespace
… Use sufficient whitespace to make sure that tests are
differentiable
… Prefer spaces to tabs
… Use Unix-style LF instead of Windows-style CR LF
<rhauck2> rniwa: oh dear - we had a great firewall problem with
the site the other day in a different room
RN: can't these checks be automated?
<rhauck2> rniwa: maybe we're hitting it now here?
JG: yes, certainly in theory
<rniwa> rhauck2: i'm on VPN though
<rhauck2> rniwa: i'm currently vpn'ed in
<rhauck2> rniwa: me too
<rhauck2> rniwa: does staging work for you?
[48]http://www.testthewebforward-staging.org/docs/
[48] http://www.testthewebforward-staging.org/docs/
RN: perhaps Critic could automatically check some of these
style issues
JG: yes, it does for some stuff (like trailing WS)
<rniwa> rhauck2: yup
<rniwa> rhauck2:
[49]http://www.testthewebforward-staging.org/docs/review-checkl
ist.html works too :D
[49] http://www.testthewebforward-staging.org/docs/review-checklist.html
<rniwa> rhauck2: thanks!
<rhauck2> ArtB: btw, cross logged the AI on the testtwf-website
issue tracker:
[50]https://github.com/w3c/testtwf-website/issues/194
[50] https://github.com/w3c/testtwf-website/issues/194
<rniwa> rhauck2: is this some sort of a server issue?
<rhauck2> rniwa: weird. whatup with Apple?
<rhauck2> rniwa: no idea
JG: it is possible to run all PRs directly
<rniwa> rhauck2: oh, it's us :/ nm...
<rhauck2> rniwa: works for me both on and off vpn
<rniwa> rhauck2: but i can access
[51]http://testthewebforward.org
[51] http://testthewebforward.org/
JG: f.ex.
[52]http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/workers/
[52] http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/workers/
<rniwa> rhauck2: only [53]http://testthewebforward.org/docs/ is
what i get 404 on
[53] http://testthewebforward.org/docs/
<rhauck2> rniwa: (we fixed the great firewall problem when we
discovered it the other day - had to do with a godaddy name
server that was blocked in china)
… this automated mirroring can cause probs f.ex. if a PR
included bad php
<rhauck2> rniwa: what about stuff under /docs? like:
[54]http://testthewebforward.org/docs/testharness-tutorial.html
[54] http://testthewebforward.org/docs/testharness-tutorial.html
… To get something mirrored to w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/
… if one isn't in the "special grou
<rniwa> rhauck2: that one worked
<rniwa> rhauck2: just
[55]http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html and
[56]http://testthewebforward.org/docs/ I guess
[55] http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html
[56] http://testthewebforward.org/docs/
<rhauck2> rniwa: weirdo man
… group, then someone in that group needs to add a
w3c-test:mirror comment to get the mirror to happen
<rhauck2> rniwa: just the exact 2 pages we were talking about
:)
<rniwa> rhauck2: yeah :(
JG: so that's all I had re the mechanics of Code Reviews
… there are now 127 Open PRs!
… thus a backlog
RB: we got about 30 PRs during the TestTWF Shenzhen event on
Nov 9
<rniwa> rhauck2: huh, it started working now. so strange.
thanks for the help
AB: can we get a list of PRs for WebApps?
RB: hmmmm
JG: the answer is yes, but no URL
<scribe> ACTION: barstow sent James a list of WebApps' test
dirs in w-p-t [recorded in
[57]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action09]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-711 - Sent james a list of webapps'
test dirs in w-p-t [on Arthur Barstow - due 2013-11-19].
ArtB: we need review help with several PRs
… especially IDB (we have 7 open PRs)
… If anyone can commit to a review, please let me know
JG: PR 379 is an important one too
… if anyone can look at that, please let me know
… platform
… [58]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/379
[58] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/379
JG: re PR379
… need review some of the XHR tests
… also NavigationTiming test need review
PLH: I already submitted a PR for the NavTiming part of 379
GH: need review of async tests
… some Opera dnd tests
… script scheduling tests (from O)
… preload tests (expect Simon to review those)
ArtB: here are some open PRs for WebApps
… File API:
[59]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/53
[59] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/53
… IDB: [60]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/63
[60] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/63
… IDB: [61]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/634
[61] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/634
… Shadow DOM:
[62]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/143
[62] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/143
… HTML Imports:
[63]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/178
[63] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/178
… Shadow DOM:
[64]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/194
[64] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/194
… Shadow DOM:
[65]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/278
[65] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/278
… File API: github
… File API:
[66]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/279
[66] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/279
… File API:
[67]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/282
[67] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/282
… File API:
[68]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/283
[68] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/283
… File API:
[69]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/284
[69] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/284
… EventSource:
[70]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/285
[70] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/285
… File API:
[71]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/286
[71] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/286
… File API:
[72]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2867
[72] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2867
… File API:
[73]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2867
[73] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/2867
… File API:
[74]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/286287
[74] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/286287
AB: and more PRs for Web Apps …
… File API:
[75]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/287
[75] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/287
… File API:
[76]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/288
[76] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/288
… File API:
[77]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/289
[77] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/289
… File API:
[78]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/290
[78] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/290
… File API:
[79]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/291
[79] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/291
… File API:
[80]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/293
[80] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/293
… Progress Events:
[81]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/294
[81] https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/294
Writing Tests
JG: I'm not sure what we want to try to accomplish in this
session
… We are getting more contributinos
… If anyone has specific questions about "how to test X", I can
work with them 1:1
<aboyet> [82]http://testthewebforward.org/docs/
[82] http://testthewebforward.org/docs/
… A new exciting resource is testthewebforward.org
… Having public events
… to write tests
… to improve interop
… It has become the "overall" name for W3C Testing Effort
… which is great [to have that brand]
… The site has lots of docs for tasks about writing tests
… Rebecca is the expert
… and she is hosting a session about the Future of TestTWF
tomorrow
… Our test repo is GitHub (GH)
… Need to start with git and how to submit tests
… The TestTWF tutorial is great
… And one can always ask Q's in W3C's #testing or #webapps IRC
channels
… As of today, there are 3 types of tests
… 1. JavaScript
… uses testharness.js
… I can help anyone with the harness
… 2. RefTests - for testing rendering
… relevant f.ex. for CSS
… could be needed by WebApps, f.ex. if the test has some
"display"
… Instead of just creating one test, need a second file
… that serves as the "reference"
… This allows Pass/Fail based on comparing both files
… 3. Manual Tests
… we try to avoid these because they are costly
… f.ex. time consuming to run
… Only want those if #1 or #2 can't be used
… Also in the future expect to accept Web Driver tests
… allows driving the browser externally
… < James introduces David Burns (DB) >
DB: I co-edit Web Driver spec
… allows automated driving the browser simulating a user
… we aren't "stuck" in JavaScript sandbox
… We can do trusted events (e.g. logging into a specific
service)
DB: < gives a demo … >
<aboyet> [83]http://www.w3.org/TR/webdriver/
[83] http://www.w3.org/TR/webdriver/
DB: Web Driver starts the browser, sets default config
… we can then do things like navigate to URLs
… can use Python, C#, Ruby and a couple of others
… FB has PHP version
… anyone can write a language binding (spec says how to do so)
… can execute arbitrary JS
… the JS is sandboxed
DB: we also have advanced user interactions
… f.ex. shift+letter+mouse_drag can be done
… really nice for doing things outside of a JS test framework
AB: nice!
DB: implemented in FFox, Chome and Opera
… we use it to test FFOS
… We also allow it to access browser chrome
… If testharness.js doesn't fit, please try Web Driver
… There is interest from other browser vendors
Travis: there is a 3rd party soln for IE
DB: we hope all browser vendors will implement it
… Please let me know if you want to chat about Web Driver or
get some demos
JG: one change that is coming soon for WPT is a self-contained
Python environment
… and that means dropping PHP
… think this will make some tests easier to write
… This eliminates installing some 3rd party stuff
… Now have to clone the repo, install several packages, edit a
host file
… But with the changes, just run one Python script
… and then access the tests via a browser
… (f.ex. web-platform-test:8000/websockets/)
… So can run the test suite locally
Travis: Sweet!
JG: script is on GH
… as well as the README file
… If you need a complex test (e.g. multiple domains or ports),
might need to read server-side.md
… There is also a "Pipes" feature
… they can be used to do things like changing headers
… Useful for XHR testing (e.g. if need to wait for the file to
get loaded)
… Instead of hardcoding domains or ports, use the templates
syntax
… and the replacement will occur (i.e. template resolved) when
the tests are run
JG: we have "asis" file support
… and can also script the server via .py files
… < see "py files" in the documentation >
JG: the documentation includes some examples
…
[84]https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/jgraham/pyth
on_review_2/server-side.md
[84]
https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/jgraham/python_review_2/server-side.md
< Applause for James! >
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: barstow find another Test Facilitator for IDB
spec [recorded in
[85]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: barstow sent James a list of WebApps' test dirs
in w-p-t [recorded in
[86]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: bateman followup with KrisK re WebMessaging test
results [87]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebMessaging
[recorded in
[88]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: bateman Run the web sockets tests and put results
in [89]http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets
[recorded in
[90]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: graham integrate Test Checklist with
[91]http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html
[recorded in
[92]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: kinuko run the Workers tests on Chrome and put
results in
[93]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebWorkers recorded
in
[94]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: pieters run the Web Sockets tests and put results
in [95]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebSockets
[recorded in
[96]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: talk to Tina about how to make progress on SSE
interop [recorded in
[97]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: travis remove the Shared Workers from the Workers
spec [recorded in
[98]http://www.w3.org/2013/11/12-webapps-minutes.html#action07]
[87] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebMessaging
[89] http://www.w3.org/wiki/webapps/interop/websockets
[91] http://testthewebforward.org/docs/review-checklist.html
[93] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebWorkers
[95] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/Interop/WebSockets
[End of minutes]
