All, We have responded to Ben's comments in Bug #1799533 at 
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1799533#c10. Kind Regards, Tom 

On Friday, 7 April 2023 at 12:14:57 UTC-5 Ben Wilson wrote:

> All,
>
> I have just completed a CP/CPS review of SSL.com's CP/CPS v. 1.16 and 
> attached it to Bugzilla Bug #1799533 (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/
> show_bug.cgi?id=1799533). See 
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=9327554 (Excel 
> Spreadsheet).
>
> I would like SSL.com to read through my comments and respond to them in 
> Bug # 1799533.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ben
>
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 2:58 PM Thomas Zermeno <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In response to 
>> https://groups.google.com/a/ccadb.org/g/public/c/mTUkK-gkHPE/m/WBaf7QUnAwAJ, 
>> starting from the Matthias’ last statement we would like to point to our 
>> actions as explained in [1], [2] and [3], which demonstrate SSL.com’s 
>> ability to monitor, analyze and take informed decisions, addressing 
>> particular cases in accordance with the BRs. 
>>
>> More specifically, our immediate actions demonstrate: 
>>
>>      i) active monitoring of industry channels such as m.d.s.p., which 
>> allowed capturing a case which was not reported via the required channels, 
>> as published in our CP/CPS section 4.9.3 per provisions of BRs section 
>> 4.9.3; 
>>
>>      ii) ability to respond swiftly with expedited deployment and testing 
>> of technical control updates (pre-issuance linting), effectively blocking 
>> any similar issuances; 
>>
>>      iii) provident care to retrospectively test against the entire 
>> corpus of certificates, confirming no other occurrences exist; 
>>
>>      iv) due diligence by promptly analyzing the technical and compliance 
>> aspects of the issue at hand, considering the relevant literature and the 
>> applicable requirements, thus leading to informed decisions instead of 
>> acting hastily; 
>>
>>      v) eagerness to test our processes and identify possible 
>> improvements by handling the issue as a real-world case, acting in 
>> communication with the subscriber and reporter (in this case, the same 
>> person). 
>>
>> In our opinion, completing the above-mentioned actions (analysis, 
>> decision, notification, revocation, retrospection and mitigation) within 26 
>> hours, is not a sign of “SSL.com's lack of urgency regarding detecting, 
>> handling, and responding” as stated in Matthias opening statement. 
>>
>> It is worth explaining the rationale of our actions, and more 
>> specifically why we didn’t make an earlier revocation decision. Context 
>> played a decisive role here. If we had received a Certificate Problem 
>> Report (CPR) per section 4.9.5 of the BRs, we would be forced to follow the 
>> exact deadlines specified in the CPR procedure (confirmation, revocation 
>> decision and execution within 24 hours of receipt of the CPR). We would 
>> have a significantly different approach (lower level of analysis depth, 
>> lower priority in updating preventive controls, etc.). Since this case was 
>> reported in a public mailing list, we considered it better to do a more 
>> in-depth analysis as due diligence and use this time to prioritize other 
>> equally important actions (preventive controls, retrospection). 
>>
>> Overall, we would like to state that this is not a case of a CA trying to 
>> escape its obligations. With [3] we made clear that, in our opinion, and in 
>> accordance with the expectations of the industry, a CA may not arbitrarily 
>> extend the period of investigation and use it as an excuse to delay 
>> revocation. We have also been completely transparent and tried to detail 
>> the rationale of our actions. As stated in [2], if the root store owners 
>> considered this a violation or found any value in filing an incident 
>> report, we would do so. However, no such request was made (for the more 
>> than two months after our December response, which further explained our 
>> rationale); on the contrary, [4] is a clear indication that our actions 
>> were considered reasonable and compliant. 
>>
>> As a publicly-trusted CA, we have handled numerous cases of CPRs 
>> reporting vulnerable or other forms of compromised keys and we have 
>> followed the requirements to the letter. Our annual audits confirm our 
>> compliance with these requirements. 
>>
>> However, we are using this case as a learning opportunity. Handling it as 
>> a real-world report, rather than as a security researcher’s exercise, 
>> allowed us to test our processes and draw useful conclusions which will 
>> improve our understanding and the maturity of our processes going forward. 
>> For example, this allowed us to do further research on weak keys, which is 
>> shortly presented in [6] and which will be used in delivering Ballot SC-59. 
>>
>> [1] 
>> https://groups.google.com/a/mozilla.org/g/dev-security-policy/c/TlhjCJm610I/m/LmlR3tJCBAAJ
>>  
>>
>> [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1800753#c2 
>>
>> [3] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1800753#c6 
>>
>> [4] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1800753#c7 
>>
>> [5] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1800753#c8 
>>
>> [6] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1800753#c11
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, 29 March 2023 at 11:43:00 UTC-5 Matthias van de Meent wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 at 21:29, 'Chris Clements' via CCADB Public 
>>> <[email protected]> wrote: 
>>> > 
>>> > All, 
>>> > 
>>> > This email commences a six-week public discussion of SSL.com’s request 
>>> to include the following certificates as publicly trusted root certificates 
>>> in one or more CCADB Root Store Member’s program. This discussion period is 
>>> scheduled to close on May 2, 2023. 
>>> > 
>>> > The purpose of this public discussion process is to promote openness 
>>> and transparency. However, each Root Store makes its inclusion decisions 
>>> independently, on its own timelines, and based on its own inclusion 
>>> criteria. Successful completion of this public discussion process does not 
>>> guarantee any favorable action by any root store. 
>>> > 
>>> > Anyone with concerns or questions is urged to raise them on this CCADB 
>>> Public list by replying directly in this discussion thread. Likewise, a 
>>> representative of the applicant must promptly respond directly in the 
>>> discussion thread to all questions that are posted. 
>>> > 
>>> > [...] 
>>> > 
>>> > Incident Summary (Bugzilla incidents from previous 24 months): [...] 
>>> > 
>>> > - 1800753: SSL.com: Delayed revocation of certificate with weak key 
>>>
>>> In this issue I expressed my concerns about SSL.com's lack of urgency 
>>> regarding detecting, handling, and responding to reports about, and 
>>> awareness of, weak public keys in the timelines required by BRs 
>>> 4.9.1.1 par.1 item (4). 
>>>
>>> The issue itself concerns the revocation timeline of a certificate 
>>> that contains a public key vulnerable to Fermat Factorization, where 
>>> the problem wasn't reported through the CA's normal certificate 
>>> problem report flow, but instead was reported on the public forum of 
>>> [email protected]. 
>>>
>>> After SSL.com publicly acknowledged that there could be problems with 
>>> the certificate (and thus had become aware of the existence of the 
>>> problem), they still took more than 24 hours to revoke the certificate 
>>> without considering that timeline problematic, with their reasoning 
>>> being as follows: 
>>>
>>> > However, as the current BRs and our CP/CPS remain silent about 
>>> characterizing the Fermat’s factorization method as “a demonstrated or 
>>> proven method that can easily compute the Subscriber’s Private Key”, 
>>> especially without additional details about the number of rounds needed to 
>>> factor the key, we did not consider that the 24h revocation timeline 
>>> applied. In particular, we proceeded with revocation within the 5-days 
>>> timeline defined in BRs 4.9.1.1 par.2 item (11), which says (emphasis 
>>> ours): 
>>> > 
>>> > “The CA is made aware of a demonstrated or proven method that exposes 
>>> the Subscriber's Private Key to compromise or **if there is clear evidence 
>>> that the specific method used to generate the Private Key was flawed** ”. 
>>>
>>> To me, this argument doesn't hold, because the problem report nor the 
>>> certificate identified any information about what way the private key 
>>> was generated. 
>>>
>>> I find it concerning that the CA does not do due diligence and 
>>> validate the claims of a report on a potentially problematic 
>>> certificate, but instead states that Fermat Factorization is not 
>>> mentioned by name in the BR and that the CA thus doesn't have to 
>>> revoke the certificate in the 24-hour time window: according to the 
>>> first mail from SSL.com in the dev-security-policy mail, the 
>>> certificate was to be revoked "out of an abundance of caution", and 
>>> not due to the requirements agreed upon in the BR. Because the 
>>> relevant public key is factored in 1 round of Fermat's Factorization 
>>> Method, this makes it difficult to believe that SSL.com did any work 
>>> on validating the claims of the post on the forum: They acknowledged 
>>> that the certificate's public key could have problems but did not 
>>> effectively act on that suspicion. 
>>>
>>> This issue makes me wonder whether SSL.com is able to handle reports 
>>> on novel weaknesses in public keys appropriately, as they don't seem 
>>> to be able to handle knowledge about known vulnerabilities like close 
>>> primes/Fermat Factorization without waiting for a CA/B Forum ballot to 
>>> get through the approval process. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Note that I don't advocate that all CAs must run hours of Fermat's on 
>>> each certificate's public keys, but that when a CA is confronted with 
>>> the knowledge that a certificate's public key may be weak to a certain 
>>> attack, then it should do its due diligence by testing at the very 
>>> least the most trivial version of the attack to check whether the 
>>> claim that the PK is vulnerable might be true. In this case, that was 
>>> apparently too much for SSL.com. 
>>>
>>>
>>> All in all, I am concerned about SSL.com's ability to comply with the 
>>> BR in those places where the BR describes only the broad ideas without 
>>> specifics, like those in section 4.9.1.1 par.1 item (4), especially 
>>> when it concerns security, key material, and/or revocation timelines 
>>> of certificates. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards, 
>>>
>>> Matthias van de Meent 
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "CCADB Public" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to [email protected].
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/a/ccadb.org/d/msgid/public/5c8a49d2-914f-4019-8cd4-fd2487271ad9n%40ccadb.org
>>  
>> <https://groups.google.com/a/ccadb.org/d/msgid/public/5c8a49d2-914f-4019-8cd4-fd2487271ad9n%40ccadb.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"CCADB Public" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/a/ccadb.org/d/msgid/public/6a8dca06-087e-4818-b41a-5e5212271ffcn%40ccadb.org.

Reply via email to