hi all,

re the old WMDE press release:

a lot depends on how such a law is drafted. In Germany, the press
publishers right is clearly aiming at search engines, or rather, at one
particular search engine with a capital G. Everybody not providing snippets
in the course of general web search or similar services is - in theory -
not affected at all. However, in the parliamentary process the wording was
made even more twisted and unclear, so that it is basically "FUD by law".

I don't know enough about WM's systems to assess whether it's possible that
snippets from press publications could end up in any wiki search results.

Best
John

2016-04-21 15:25 GMT+02:00 Dimitar Parvanov Dimitrov <
[email protected]>:

> Hi list,
>
> Another worry surrounding ancillary copyright issue has been voiced by
> Wikimedia Deutschland a few years ago [1] before Germany introduced the
> law. The focus was that Wikipedia articles regularly include links and
> parts of newspaper articles or press releases. It seems to be quite unclear
> to what extent they fall under the citation exception and where the new
> ancillary copyright takes over.
>
> Dimi
>
> [1]https://wikimedia.de/wiki/Pressemitteilungen/PM_6_12_LSR
>
> 2016-04-20 3:00 GMT+02:00 Jacob Rogers <[email protected]>:
>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> A few answers to the questions.
>>
>> 1. As far as I'm aware, WMF has not gone after anyone for copyright
>> infringement. I can't 100% rule out that it might have happened many years
>> ago, but I don't think we ever have.
>>
>> 2. The content creator or creators have the best standing for a lawsuit
>> because they're the copyright owners. As far as standing for WMF goes, it's
>> a pretty complex question. I think there could be some theories of standing
>> that might allow WMF to sue on behalf of one or more users to enforce a
>> copyright, but I can't say for sure if any of them would hold up in court.
>>
>> 3. Not sure what circumstances have led to GPL or similar licenses coming
>> up for litigation. It's equally possible that an individual content creator
>> chose to sue or was sued in the context of the GPL, it just depends on the
>> resources involved.
>>
>> 4. I don't see the connection between organizational standing and the
>> value of a publisher's right. If there were some hypothetical really
>> egregious case of Wikimedia project licenses being infringed and WMF wanted
>> to sue, there's a possibility of funding a suit by a group of users even if
>> we couldn't get associational standing. A separate publisher's right seems
>> to me to potentially pit authors and publishers against each other and
>> allow publishers to demand money even when the author is okay with
>> dedicating their work or a use of it to the public.
>>
>>
>> Counter issues
>>
>> 1. Licensed content is unlikely to be affected since it is published with
>> the license, it would seem to me that the same license would apply to the
>> published copy. Though it's possible if the law were poorly worded, it
>> could create a right outside of the existing regime and that wouldn't be
>> covered by existing CC licenses and would require an update as a result.
>>
>> I am much more worried about PD content, which could potentially become
>> mired in confusion if specific publications of it were separately
>> copyrighted even though the underlying content is free for the public.
>>
>> 2. My best guess at damages would be some calculation of lost profits.
>> That is, the publisher would say "if i had the exclusive right to sell
>> this, I would have made X dollars, but that didn't happen because the
>> person I'm suing made all these copies without permission, so they should
>> pay me X."
>>
>> 3. Text and data mining probably wouldn't be affected, or at least would
>> be no more affected than they are under the existing copyright regime.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 18, 2016 at 4:31 PM, James Heald <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I've been invited to represent Wikimedia at a round-table of interested
>>> parties with the UK Government on Wednesday, to offer thoughts on the
>>> current EU consultations on Freedom of Panorama, and on a proposed new EU
>>> "neighbouring right" for publishers (similar to the EU broadcasters' right).
>>>
>>> Dimi has already put up some good thoughts on the FoP consultation
>>> questions,
>>>    https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/EU_policy/FoP_Consultation
>>>
>>> but it would be useful to pull together talking points on the proposed
>>> Publishers' Right.
>>>
>>> As Dimi flagged up in his report recently, the publishers' pitch for
>>> this can be found at
>>>    http://www.publishersright.eu/
>>>
>>> while the questions in the EU consultation can be found at:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/Consultation_Copyright?surveylanguage=EN
>>> & click on the button "The role of publishers in the copyright value
>>> chain"
>>>
>>> There is a clear attempted grab buried in the consultation, under
>>> question 4:
>>> proposing that publishers should have the ability "to receive
>>> compensation for uses made under an exception"
>>>
>>> which can be contrasted with the exceptions under 5(3) of the InfoSoc
>>> directive which do *not* require compensation.
>>>
>>>
>>> But apart from this, it would be useful to discuss WM's take on the
>>> issues that the Publishers' Right is being canvassed for to supposedly
>>> address, from the standpoint of WMF as a publisher, that reserves its
>>> recourse to copyright to defend the terms on which our material is made
>>> available.
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>>
>>> * Is this something (going after some entity for copyright infringement)
>>> that we have in fact ever done ?
>>>
>>> (Either for text or images)
>>>
>>> * Would WMF have standing to initiate such a suit, or (if WMF only has a
>>> nonexclusive license to the material on WP pages) would such a suit have to
>>> be initiated by the content creator ?
>>>
>>> * When eg the GPL has been defended in Europe, is that typically only
>>> possible because there has been a copyright transfer agreement required to
>>> the project from contributors ?
>>>
>>> * Is there therefore at least some case for what the publishers are
>>> asking for ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Counter-issues:
>>>
>>> * Do such neighbouring rights threaten to upset copyleft ecosystems, by
>>> locking up PD content and/or copyleft content as part of a publication
>>> protected as a whole ?
>>>
>>> * What sort of damages would publishers be able to seek?  What 'value'
>>> would these be computed on, outwith the value of the copyrights?
>>>
>>> * Implications for text & data mining, summarisation, etc.  "Right to
>>> read is the right to mine".
>>>
>>>
>>> More thoughts ?
>>>
>>>
>>>   -- James.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Publicpolicy mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/publicpolicy
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jacob Rogers
>> Legal Counsel
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>
>> NOTICE: This message might have confidential or legally privileged
>> information in it. If you have received this message by accident, please
>> delete it and let us know about the mistake. As an attorney for the
>> Wikimedia Foundation, for legal/ethical reasons I cannot give legal advice
>> to, or serve as a lawyer for, community members, volunteers, or staff
>> members in their personal capacity. For more on what this means, please see
>> our legal disclaimer
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Publicpolicy mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/publicpolicy
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Publicpolicy mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/publicpolicy
>
>


-- 
Referent für Politik und Recht
Legal and Policy Advisor

Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0
http://wikimedia.de

Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
http://spenden.wikimedia.de/

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207.
_______________________________________________
Publicpolicy mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/publicpolicy

Reply via email to