On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:00 AM, R.I.Pienaar <[email protected]> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > On 04/12/2011 04:41 PM, R.I.Pienaar wrote: > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > >> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:54 AM, R.I.Pienaar < [email protected] > > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> The PDL is a *much* more desirable solution than either layered > > >> classes > > >> or extlookup, why it has gone un-implemented I dont know and why > > >> the > > >> current suggestion is that layered classes somehow represents an > > >> effective > > >> alternative to the PDL I do not understand at all - since surely > > >> why > > >> bother with the PDL at all then? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> I'll answer this one. The obvious, and correct, answer is, > > >> "because > > >> it's a lot of work to do this." > > >> > > >> For Puppetlabs to do this, they're going to have to invest a lot > > >> of > > >> time and energy, because their implementation *must* be > > >> backwards-compatible or else provide an automated tool for doing > > >> the > > >> conversion. Further, the PDL proposal hasn't actually been around > > >> all that long. Puppetlabs isn't Microsoft and doesn't have a > > >> thousand developers on hand to write stuff up. Their staff is > > >> small > > >> and no matter how talented they are, there is limited time with > > >> each > > >> day. Even a user-contributed patch set probably will take time to > > >> vet simply because of the compatibility requirements. > > > > > > I get that, I wasnt intending to say 'why has it not been coded > > > yet' but > > > more wondering why extlookup is being downplayed in the absence of > > > a > > > solution that solves the same problem as effectively. Many big > > > users > > > out there today says they cant live without extlookup, simply > > > because > > > it's effective at solving the problem. > > > > > > So I think the original question is very valid - why tell people > > > not > > > to use a feature that is available in the core language? if it sux, > > > remove it. > > > > Hi, > > > > I can see how this is a soft spot for you, but it wasn't suggested > > that extlookup was doing a poor job. We're talking the *Style* guide > here. > > I think you miss understand me, I dont care for extlookup one way or the > other, > I've never really run the one in the core distro as I have some other > enhancements that isn't in Puppet. > > I do care what recommendations are made to the community - not just those > who pay for training so they can understand complex data modeling with > OO like inheritance. > > I care for a simple to understand, simple to explain CM language, one > suitable for traditional systems adminis - the kind of guys I care for > and who I want to help - and I think we're failing them with ever more > complex recommendations. > > > After all, ENC+param classes are available if clumsy (as you put it). > > Rather than use a feature that exist and solve the problem, the > recommendation > is that each user should *write their own ENC that models their data* and > this is somehow more effective than just using the existing extlookup > while the PDL is being developed? > > I agree with this. One huge problem with this recommendation is that we have still not shipped a feature complete ENC that can serve as a replacement to the data modeling that extlookup provides. This argument would be a lot more compeling if it was "use param classes, and Puppetlabs super cool ENC". I have spent some time working with customers to explain how to build these, and I have been working on one that supports the model that I have in mind...
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