On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 7:33 AM, Jonah Graham <jo...@kichwacoders.com>wrote:
> Hi again!
>
Hi Jonah :)
> I now have a follow-up, but this time on versions of Python to support.
>
> In the work I am doing[1] updating the pydevconsole I was testing my
> changes against older versions of Python. IPython currently requires Python
> 2.6+ or 3.2+ and this will be the minimum versions required for the new
> features. During testing I tried using Python 2.1.3 (built from source on
> Ubuntu 12.04 64-bit) and the console does not work[2].
>
> My question therefore is: What is the minimum required versions of Python
> (et al) that PyDev should support going forward?
>
> I suppose this may be a question for PyDev 3+ and that PyDev should
> continue to support the oldest possible version.
>
I think that the core PyDev (i.e.: code analysis, code-completion, editor,
etc) should support at least Jython 2.1+ and Python 2.4+.
Now, if there are advanced features which require more current versions of
Python to work, I don't think this is a big issue.
So, related to the shell, I think the basic features should work with those
same versions, but if there are advanced features that require 2.6+ (such
as an advanced IPython integration) I think this is Ok.
Now, related to the features you're adding, I think it's Ok to require
IPython, but if it's not available on the system, the shell should still
work for users that don't want to install IPython (i.e.: the current Qt/wx
integration should probably be kept working without needing IPython).
Cheers,
Fabio
p.s.: Related to the PyDev 3 feature-set, I think the main thing at this
point will be the way that PyDev deals with the configured interpreter
(which is the most voted feature at this point:
https://sw-brainwy.rhcloud.com/tracker/PyDev/80) and probably virtualenv
support, but PyDev development is very incremental, so, even things still
added on PyDev 2.x (such as the recent code-completion based on types)
could probably be enough for raising the version.
> Thanks
> Jonah
>
> [1] I am doing further work on GUI event loops and deeper integration of
> IPython
> [2] xmlrpc was not part of 2.1, so pydev uses the local version, but this
> is the error we get:
> Error stream: Traceback (most recent call last):
> File
> "/scratch/pydev/Pydev/plugins/org.python.pydev/pysrc/pydevconsole.py", line
> 21, in ?
> from pydev_imports import SimpleXMLRPCServer, Queue
> File
> "/scratch/pydev/Pydev/plugins/org.python.pydev/pysrc/pydev_imports.py",
> line 7, in ?
> import _pydev_xmlrpclib as xmlrpclib
> File
> "/scratch/pydev/Pydev/plugins/org.python.pydev/pysrc/_pydev_xmlrpclib.py",
> line 159, in ?
> _bool_is_builtin = False.__class__.__name__ == "bool"
> AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute '__class__'
>
>
> On 23 August 2013 09:46, Jonah Graham <jo...@kichwacoders.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Fabio,
>>
>> I like your conclusion, especially regarding PyDev 3 vs 2 for the
>> breakage.
>>
>> As for apache commons code, for now that is fine. If I come up with a
>> specific and strong enough need I will re-raise it. I was aware that you
>> had spent considerable time writing good quality utility code and don't
>> want to get rid of any of that. (Perhaps, when you find that elusive free
>> time ;-), you can improve the apache commons join for everyone.
>>
>> (Out of curiosity, will there be a major feature set change to go along
>> with the version change?)
>>
>> Thanks, and looking forward to PyDev 3.0!
>> Jonah
>>
>>
>> On 22 August 2013 18:13, Fabio Zadrozny <fab...@esss.com.br> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Jonah,
>>>
>>> Ok, the poll (
>>> http://pydev.blogspot.com.br/2013/08/pydev-poll-about-minimum-javaeclipse.html)
>>> has been around for some time already, and it seems the major issue there
>>> would be support for older versions of Mac OS, where java can't be
>>> upgraded...
>>>
>>> Anyways, I think that given the feedback, going forward to support only
>>> Java 7 and Eclipse 3.7 onwards is what we should look at...
>>>
>>> Still, I think that this breakage should be pretty visible, so, I'd like
>>> to keep PyDev 2.x releases based on the current dependencies and go forward
>>> to breaking the dependency in PyDev 3.
>>>
>>> The idea would be stabilizing and doing one more release on PyDev 2,
>>> creating a branch to keep it going, doing one more bugfix-only release from
>>> that branch and then creating PyDev 3 where we can start targeting Eclipse
>>> 3.7 onwards and Java 7.
>>>
>>> Regarding the apache commons, I took a (rather quick) look at it and I
>>> don't think they replace all that's used in the PyDev StringUtils... and in
>>> some cases (i.e.: StringUtils.join), their implementation seems to be
>>> considerably slower than the current PyDev implementation which was pretty
>>> optimized, so, I'm a little wary about making that replacement...
>>>
>>> As for adding the apache commons, I'd like to know if you have specific
>>> things you'd like to use (if it's just one or 2 utility classes, I'm not
>>> sure it's worth the extra weight -- in that case, as their license allows,
>>> it may be worth just copying those classes).
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Fabio
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 9:18 PM, Fabio Zadrozny <fab...@esss.com.br>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jonah,
>>>>
>>>> I'll do the following: I'll create a blog entry to ask people what they
>>>> think about... personally, I think going forward is nice, but I'd like to
>>>> check with the current user base if that's an issue... (at a time I know
>>>> Mac OS users had problems updating to more recent versions of Java, and
>>>> Eclipse 3.2 was the version used by Aptana Studio 2, but I don't think it
>>>> has to be supported anymore).
>>>>
>>>> So, I'll ask users to be able to give you feedback :)
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Fabio
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Jonah Graham
>>>> <jo...@kichwacoders.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I know that PyDev officially supports Eclipse 3.2+[1]/Java 6+ (or
>>>>> 5?)[2], however I would like to use some features of Java 7 (e.g.
>>>>> java.nio stuff). In addition I would love to be able to use various
>>>>> apache commons stuff (e.g. StringUtils[3]).
>>>>>
>>>>> What are the issues/(other?) with supporting older versions of
>>>>> Eclipse/Java/etc?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts/comments?
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Jonah
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] There is a little bit of code with correct try/catch in
>>>>> PydevPlugin for supporting Eclipse 4+ if it is available.
>>>>> [2] On http://pydev.org/download.html it states Jave 6+ (Java 7
>>>>> recommended), but on http://pydev.org/developers.html for developers
>>>>> the request is still Java 5 API?
>>>>> [3] If PyDev did become dependent on apache commons, then I could go
>>>>> and remove the (then) redundant code in PyDev's StringUtils?
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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