I am also open to that. Anything to improve the readability of the
documentation.

I was also playing with the idea to generate the entire 'website' using
sphinx on RTD. So instead of the wiki pages on bitbucket.

Rob

On 31 May 2017 at 06:22, Benjamin Moran <[email protected]> wrote:

> I personally have no issue with that.
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 12:06:35 PM UTC+9, Steve Johnson wrote:
>>
>> On a totally separate note, how open are you all to changes to the theme?
>> I find the small font on the class and function names hard to read.
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 9:25:30 AM UTC-7, Steve Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> Sounds great, I'm in!
>>>
>>> BTW, I'm already all in on Python 3, but it looks like the current docs
>>> are omitting all methods on all classes and I suspect Python 3 is the
>>> reason. I'm not sure I'll be able to track that one down. I opened a ticket
>>> for it yesterday on BitBucket.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 30, 2017, at 05:16 AM, Rob van der Most wrote:
>>>
>>> We could also add a branch on bitbucket? We can then give you write
>>> access to the official repository and I can set up a RTD job for generating
>>> the new documentation.
>>>
>>> It would be excellent if we can get rid of the sphinx patches.
>>>
>>> One word of warning: you need to use Python 3 to generate the
>>> documentation due to https://github.com/sphinx-doc/sphinx/issues/1641
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>> On 30 May 2017 at 09:05, Benjamin Moran <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sounds good to me. Let me know when you have the fork ready, and we can
>>> start hacking away on it.
>>> Having a public site up will be a great for getting feedback on the
>>> direction.
>>>
>>> Speaking of docstrings, what are your thoughts on the current docstring
>>> format?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 1:58:51 PM UTC+9, Steve Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> I forgot to add number zero: make sure all the existing modules have
>>> complete docstrings! I'd rather focus on that before anything else.
>>>
>>> But yeah, I'm interested in doing a lot or most of this. Remember that
>>> there's no risk of breaking the existing docs, because the API rst files
>>> are already valid.
>>>
>>> Your proposal is a good one. Let's do that. I can use my fork and just
>>> host the static site on GitHub Pages.
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 9:02:53 PM UTC-7, Benjamin Moran wrote:
>>>
>>> Sounds perfectly reasonable to me (espeically #4), but I admit I'm not
>>> as familiar with documentation as I should be.
>>> It would be ideal to start hacking on this without breaking the existing
>>> docs, which are being automatically built by Read the Docs. By the way I
>>> believe Rob has set this up, and has ownership of that Read the Docs
>>> account. (It was set up before I started contributing).
>>>
>>> There are Sphinx patches included with pyglet to handle the event stuff,
>>> but we probably should check if they're even needed anymore with recent
>>> versions.
>>>
>>> If you are feeling up to spearheading this effort, I'm happy to work
>>> with you on it. Maybe we can work off of a fork to start, and set up a
>>> temporary online docs page. Does that make sense, or what would be easiest?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 12:26:13 PM UTC+9, Steve Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> In my ideal world, the pyglet project would take the following steps:
>>>
>>> 1. "Freeze" the current contents of doc/api. All further updates will be
>>> done by hand.
>>> 2. Check each page by hand. Make any relevant cleanup tweaks. From what
>>> I can see now, this mostly involves getting rid of bogus "Variables" and
>>> "Defines" sections that just list random imports from `future`.
>>> 3. When it looks good, delete all the doc/api-generating code and just
>>> make sure API updates are reflected in the docs.
>>> 4. Go to town updating each individual page to be as good as it can
>>> possibly be! Module pages can become more topic-oriented where appropriate,
>>> rather than having a hard divide between "programming guide" and "API
>>> reference." Django is a good example of this, although they take it too far
>>> for my taste. Some of the pyglet modules already do a good job.
>>>
>>> The current system is actually really nice in that you've already got
>>> valid rst, you just need to stop doing the intermediate step! By removing
>>> the rst-generating step, you just end up with a working set of rst files.
>>>
>>> It might sound like you'll lose time manually tweaking the rst files
>>> over time, but in practice it's adding/removing an `..autoclass::` here and
>>> there, and you more than make up for it in reduced time spent fighting with
>>> the tools. (Spread out over newbie contributors like me, of course!)
>>>
>>> Speaking of event documentation specifically, it's definitely very
>>> important! But it's exactly the kind of thing you can handle with a Sphinx
>>> extension rather than a preprocessing step, which I believe is what is
>>> already happening. You might not need to make any changes at all. But if
>>> you do, I have a lot of experience writing Sphinx extensions from scratch
>>> and can probably help out.
>>>
>>> What that looks like in practice is that you'll have a class docstring
>>> with a directive like this:
>>>
>>>   .. pyglet:event:: on_eos
>>>
>>>     Fires when the current source ends.
>>>
>>> You can make the HTML look pretty much however you want. The mrjob
>>> project uses it to define[1] and collect[2] command line options. I wrote
>>> the extension[3] to make it trivial for documentation authors. (I disliked
>>> the experience so much I wrote a competing documentation system[4], but I
>>> wouldn't try to convince you to switch.)
>>>
>>> [1] http://mrjob.readthedocs.io/en/latest/guides/configs-had
>>> oopy-runners.html#option-check_input_paths
>>> [2] http://mrjob.readthedocs.io/en/latest/guides/configs-reference.html
>>> [3] https://github.com/Yelp/mrjob/blob/master/docs/options_extension.py
>>> [4] http://steveasleep.com/computerwords/
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 8:04:57 PM UTC-7, Benjamin Moran wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Steve,
>>>
>>> No offense taken here!  I'm very much in support of improving the
>>> maintainability of the documentation, and lowering barriers to
>>> contributing. I'd ask Rob, Leif and others to chime in here with their own
>>> opinions of course, but I think everyone would agree that improvements are
>>> good.
>>>
>>> For my part, I'm more than willing to put in the manual work of cleaning
>>> up and rewriting docstrings if necessary. I'm not intimately familiar with
>>> the documentation, but I know the one concern we have is that the event
>>> classes are documented correctly. I'm not sure if this is something that is
>>> now able to be handled py Sphinx without patching, but maybe so.
>>>
>>> What would you say is a good path forward?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 5:46:29 AM UTC+9, Steve Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> Just realized my first sentence might sound a bit ungrateful, but I
>>> promise that is not the case. I'm just trying to make a point and express
>>> my opinions about best practices. :-)
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 1:45:47 PM UTC-7, Steve Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> I just spent some time improving some of the docs, and I must stay, I am
>>> moderately horrified at the autogenerated rst files. Why not just write
>>> them by hand like everybody else and use autoclass/:members:? It's not at
>>> all onerous to keep them up to date.
>>>
>>> As someone who writes a LOT of Python docs, largely for fun (
>>> https://mrjob.readthedocs.io, https://pillow.readthedocs.io,
>>> http://steveasleep.com/clubsandwich, ...) this honestly makes me
>>> hesitant to put a lot of effort into contributing, because it's an unusual
>>> and limiting way to do things.
>>>
>>> The epydoc layout of one class per page with a strict structure of
>>> [inheritance, methods, attributes] is not good for discovery or inline
>>> narrative documentation. And the intermediate api/*.txt-generating layer is
>>> both a barrier to contribution, and limits the flexibility of the
>>> individual pages.
>>>
>>> So above and beyond fixing the many, many missing docstrings, my number
>>> one request (which I would gladly do myself!) is that the API docs be
>>> switched over a more conventional Sphinx setup.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 11:54:05 PM UTC-7, Benjamin Moran wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Steve,
>>>
>>> I found the markdown files on your github. They'll probably need a few
>>> paragraphs adjusted to fit the rest of the documentation, but it's a good
>>> addition and certainly better than what we have now.
>>>
>>> I was also looking through some old conversations on the mailing list,
>>> and it looks like we can remove a lot of old epydoc cruft from the codebase.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 4:27:09 AM UTC+9, Steve Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> It's in Markdown. I'm sure something like Pandoc could convert it with
>>> good fidelity. It also has a sample code repo.
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 6:42:59 PM UTC-7, Benjamin Moran wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the offer Steve. I think we talked about this in the past but
>>> didn't follow up.
>>> It would be a good first step to dump your site into rst, and then edit
>>> it from there.
>>> The raw site wouldn't happen to be in rst already, would it?
>>>
>>> On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 2:59:39 AM UTC+9, Steve wrote:
>>>
>>> I am interested in helping out with this. I've been a pyglet user since
>>> 2008 and always thought the docs were pretty bad in comparison to projects
>>> of similar size and maturity. My own best documentation work is this:
>>> http://mrjob.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
>>>
>>> Specifically, the current pyglet docs do not actually document all the
>>> APIs! You have to read the source code and see the old epydoc docstrings,
>>> or at least this was true as of a few weeks ago. The media.Player class in
>>> particular has this problem.
>>>
>>> I am the author of this out-of-date tutorial: http://steveasleep.c
>>> om/pyglettutorial.html
>>> Now that pyglet is being maintained again, I would love to just
>>> contribute the tutorial to the actual docs and redirect my page. And when I
>>> get some time, I will help fill out the rest of the pyglet docs. But I can
>>> make no promises about when that will be. :-)
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 10:34:30 PM UTC-7, Benjamin Moran wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for ideas for how the pyglet documentation can be improved,
>>> both in terms of missing things or sections that should be added.
>>> I've personally always found the technical aspects of the documentation
>>> to be quite good, but I hear often that the documentation as a whole is not
>>> so clear for new users.
>>> In particular, the "writing a pyglet application" section is perhaps a
>>> bit to light.
>>>
>>> Better than suggestions would be if anyone wants to get involved with
>>> writing something new or improving existing sections. Please let me know if
>>> you're interested in getting involved. Even if you're not comfortable with
>>> making pull requests, I'd be more than happy to work directly with you to
>>> handle contributions.
>>>
>>> -Ben
>>>
>>>
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