On Jan 18, 2007, at 6:04 PM, Jamie wrote:
I'm at the point now that I'm comfortable with writing productive apps
in Python and am looking for a good MVC framework. I started with
Django and found it reatively easy to pickup. However, one of the
reasons it's easy is because all the components are so closely tied
together. I decided to buckle down and try to learn Pylons because of
how loosely coupled everything is and I agree with the WGSI
philosophy.
But having to learn Myghty/Cheetah (still haven't decided),
SQLAlchemy,
Paste, and Routes all at once sucks. Add in the lack of my Python
background and things are overwhelming.
Is there anyone else out there that is trying to learn this all at
once? How are you doing it?
Don't rush it.
There is no reason to try and learn everything at once. There's
pretty much no reason to even consider Paste from the beginning
besides for the few 'paster' commands you need to start the
development server, make a new project, and add a controller:
paster create --template=pylons PROJ
paster controller NEWCONTROLLER
paster serve development.ini
That's all from Paste you need to know until you want to write WSGI
middleware or start getting deeper into WSGI aspects. Routes comes
pre-configured to map URL's into controllers and actions based off:
/CONTROLLER/ACTION/ID (action and id are optional, id defaults to
None, action defaults to index)
That's all of Routes you need to know until you want to customize URL
matching. (There's rather extensive documents for Routes on setting
up URL's and such that you can then read later)
I would personally suggest Mako (Myghty's successor and much cleaner)
if you want non-XML based templates, and Genshi if you want XML-ish
templates. Again, use as little as possible to get started, and read
the appropriate docs for the template language as you need more
features.
I think this is the main reason for the "see official docs for more
info" that you mention below. Those are there to try and get move you
along using Pylons, without the killer learning curve you mention.
Learn what you need for this step, then move on so you can see how it
works together. Then learn more about the parts as you need to.
My suggestions to the maintainers: You need to vastly improve the docs
if you're serious about increasing user adoption; the QuickWiki one in
particular. There are just too many statements along the lines of "see
the official docs for X for more info". The bassakwards
presentation of
the QuickWiki is also confusing. A start-to-finish, step-by-step
walkthrough on how to create a database-driven Pylons app would be a
boon to the project. "If you're using Postgres, do A, B,C. If you're
using MySQL do D,E,F". "If you're using SQLAlchemy do this. SQLObject
do that." Just my two cents...
Yup, agreed. It's mainly a matter of resources. We can't appeal to
everyone, and the flexibility comes at a cost, its impossible to
document everything everyone will want to do. Would anyone like to
help out with docs? I'd be thrilled to open up access to the main doc
pages to those interested.
The Pylons community is growing, and the resources are increasing, it
takes time. Django had very little in the way of docs when they
started as well, please keep that in mind. Plus, they only have to
document the "Django" way.
Again, we're working on it, if you have more specific problems please
bring them up here and we'd be happy to help out.
HTH,
Ben
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