In a message of Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:46:52 +0200, Beatrice During writes: >--8323328-735653061-1127926012=:6433 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT > >Hi there > >On Wed, 28 Sep 2005, Laura Creighton wrote: <snip>
>> So if you aren't throwing out a lot of code, then you aren't being >> very agile. I'd say we're excellent on that score. > >So the infrastructure for being able to do that (our entire test suite) is >a key component for "throwing away"? How does our automated test suites >fare in comparison with other OSS/agile projects? >(Relax Holger ;-) I think that py.test makes doing test driven development easier and faster. The quality of your test suites depends on the amount of time that developers are willing to put into making tests. I think that the 'NO API' approach makes writing py.tests a lot easier and faster than other testing frameworks that do have an api. Easier and Faster to Write == More Tests == Better Test Suite. And a good test suite is essential .... but I would not think that it is more essential for agile development than for fossilised development. But then I am such a fan of test driven development, that I cannot imagine going any other way, even in a non-agile project. I suspect that TDD is necessary but not sufficient for agile development. It used to be that the state of the test suites in all software projects could be assumed to be abysmal. This is changing. But there is still a lot we do not test. We test the things that interest us, but don't have a way to test the things we never think of. This is a universal failing of all test suites, and I believe that ours is no worse than others, but it still is a flaw. <snip> >I agree - so to summarize - within the community and the boundary of the >PyPy project we are really fullfilling agile thoughts and values - but the >EU boundaries of the projects is "dampening" our "Ability to continuously > >learn" and "Responsibly responding to change" - more? Ah, I think we are continuously learning no matter what. It is more of a problem of not being able to immediately act on what we have learned. And the problem of having to solve the problem in the order we told the EU we would, for the purpose of getting the deliverables done on time, rather than what would be convenient for us. When a new person shows up in the project, they want to immediately work on the thing that gives them the best benefit. The notion of 'well, we could do this now but we aren't supposed to do things like that until next March, according to the schedule' isn't very agile at all. Laura >Thanks for your thoughts on this Laura! My pleasure. > >Cheers > >Bea > > >> Laura >> >> In a message of Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:20:52 +0200, Beatrice During writes >: >>> --8323328-2105496072-1127852452=:25960 >>> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT >>> >>> Hi there >>> >>> I am working on documenting PyPy (the project) as a showcase of agile >>> development. In order to be able to do this I would love to get some >>> thoughts and reflections from you who are working on /following PyPy a >nd >>> the question is of course - how agile are we? >>> >>> Here is some short notes on success factors of agile approaches (from >an >>> eworkshop in 2002 - Cockburn, Beck etc, >>> http://fc-md.umd.edu/projects/Agile/Summary/SummaryPF.htm): >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >--- >>> In general, the group agreed that the following are the success factor >s >>> for agile development: >>> >>> § Negotiation: If people are willing to keep talking and learni >ng, >>> you are, almost by definition, agile. >>> >>> § Ability to continuously learn >>> >>> § Responsibly responding to change. >>> >>> § Environment where rapid communication is enabled. >>> >>> § Team reasonably in charge of its own destiny (being allowed t >o >>> succeed). >>> >>> § People are valued over other factors >>> >>> § The team needs to be more than just able, it needs to actuall >y >>> succeed. There needs to be a support network for each >>> individual in the >>> team to make a contribution however small. >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- >>> >>> How does these factors apply to PyPy and this community? Are we doing >>> other things that is not mentioned here that is working well for us? T >hin >>> gs we could do better? >>> >>> Your responses will be part of documentation about PyPy/agile dev >>> (sprints) that will be distributed to the EU, Universities, various >>> companies and other Open Source projects who have stated a clear inter >est >>> >>> in the PyPy showcase..... >>> >>> If you feel that answering this email doesnt really fit the purpose of >>> this mailinglist - please answer to me specifically. >>> >>> Thank you for your contribution! >>> >>> Cheers >>> Bea >>> >>> >>> Beatrice Düring Change Maker >>> Tel: 031- 7750940 Järntorget 3 >>> Mobil: 0734- 22 89 06 413 04 Göteborg >>> E-post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.changemaker.nu >>> >>> "Alla dessa måsten och alldaglighet. >>> Allt detta som binder vår verklighet >>> i bojor av skam och rep utav tvång. >>> Alla dessa kedjor som binder vår sång. >>> Jag skall slita dem alla i små, små stycken >>> och möjligtvis av resterna göra mig smycken." >>> - hemlig >>> >>> --8323328-2105496072-1127852452=:25960 >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> MIME-Version: 1.0 >>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> Content-Disposition: inline >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> [email protected] >>> http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev >>> --8323328-2105496072-1127852452=:25960-- >> > >Beatrice Düring Change Maker >Tel: 031- 7750940 Järntorget 3 >Mobil: 0734- 22 89 06 413 04 Göteborg >E-post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.changemaker.nu > > "Alla dessa måsten och alldaglighet. > Allt detta som binder vår verklighet > i bojor av skam och rep utav tvång. > Alla dessa kedjor som binder vår sång. > Jag skall slita dem alla i små, små stycken > och möjligtvis av resterna göra mig smycken." > - hemlig > >--8323328-735653061-1127926012=:6433-- _______________________________________________ [email protected] http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
