In a message of Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:53:33 +0100, Martijn Faassen writes: >Hey, > >Laura Creighton wrote: >> In a message of Sun, 11 Nov 2007 09:14:54 +0100, Martijn Faassen writes >: >>> Hi there, >>> >>> http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2007/11/08/PyPy >>> >>> It might be worth it for someone to comment on it, as the one comment >>> there is rather negative about PyPy (it'd really help to have PyPy >>> interpreters in production somewhere, as before you do, the criticism >in >>> the comment cannot be properly countered) >> >> Somebody not in the project can comment on it if they like. I'm >> not in the habit of responding to troll-bait. If that person >> sincerely thinks that we haven't produced much in 2 years then >> he either is completely unaware of what we have done, or he >> cannot understand it. > > > I'm fine with combatting ignorance, but not the with people in the > > 'my-sports-teams-is-better-than-your-sports-team' mode. > >It's a negative message in a widely read blog. Even if it's offensive >and wrong, it's also bad marketing for the project. By now any (minor) >damage it did is done though, I guess, as it'll disappear off people's >radar again. > >I of course don't agree that you didn't accomplish anything, but of >course on the other hand I continue on my mission to poke you guys >gently about seeing PyPy into production (my own work). > >Once PyPy is used in production there's an easy way to blow any such >criticism out of the water. If it never happens, you've accomplished >research goals, which are worthwhile by itself, but I'd prefer to see >something more pragmatic myself in addition. :)
Us, too. But Samuele, Armin, Jacob and myself are now on a 2 week US road show speaking with major players in US companies every day of the week. We don't have time for baby-trolls even if we had the inclination. <snip> >I also live close to that world. It's an audience you want to reach, I >think, so it was interesting to read what came out of your meeting from >that side. > >I guess he'll believe you once you have a compliant JITed PyPy >interpreter running on the JVM in production, then. :) Nothing that dramatic. Just a Ruby that runs at the speed of CPython. Though, goodness knows, perhaps John Rose and Charles Nutter will tell him that we are for real, and that will be enough. It's hard to know the difference between a genuine revolution in the industry, and a lot of hot air. But the odds are on anything radical being the second. After all, if it is so hot, why hasn't somebody else already done it? There is no answer to that. The hard things that change the world were often done by people who weren't expected to amount to anything, and just kept on truckin' anyway. Sooner, rather than later, Tim Bray will have his answer, and nobody will blame him for being skeptical about our ability to deliver on what we promise, because we promise a lot, and something that has never been done before. Sometimes the caterpillar wants to become a larger, healthier caterpillar. Sometimes it's time to become a butterfly. >>> It's too bad the potential of a compliant, maintainable Python >>> implementation on the JVM doesn't seem to make it to his blog. I assum >e >>> you also pitched actual work on *Python* on, say, the JVM, to him as a > >>> possible candidate for funding. As opposed to any arbitrary language, >>> which basically lets Tim change the topic to a Ruby discussion. >> >> Tim is very Ruby focused. He's not interested in python, he said, >> because 'the ruby community is more vibrant'. Vibrant is measured >> in body-count. > >body-count? As in how many people are part of it (I imagine Python would >do pretty well compared to Python) or how many people die in horrible >flame wars? :) I think 'how many people attend Ruby developers conferences' and 'how many people use rails' but I am not 100% convinced of that. <snip> >It's glad to hear from your side, thanks! I didn't mean to criticize you >at all, I was just curious to explain the blog entry which presented >PyPy in a somewhat unusual light. > >> We go spend a whole day at Sun on Monday, focused on the JVM. >> John Rose, who is organising this, and who knows Samuele from >> a currently running Java expert committee, has invited some >> people, including some JRuby people to attend. John Rose is >> already _really excited about this_. And we left with him very impressed. Wew had a blast. I think he would liek to attend a Sprint. And he would like it if we made our next pypy focus -- getting the jit to work with the JVM. Wouldn't that be fun. >> There is nothing but good news here. Be happy for us. > >All right, I'm happy for you. :) Thank you, and we will keep your concerns under consideration. But please remember that the PyPy dev team needs to eat, pay rent, and the like. While developing a Ruby front end may not be the most fun thing we could do, it may be plenty more fun than the other things we would end up doing instead just to make the financial ends meet. Laura, happier than ever today. > >Regards, > >Martijn > >_______________________________________________ >[email protected] >http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev _______________________________________________ [email protected] http://codespeak.net/mailman/listinfo/pypy-dev
