Ah. I had misunderstood. I'll get back to you on that :) thanks
/Martin
> On 17/03/2014, at 15.21, Maciej Fijalkowski <fij...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> eh, this is not what I need
>
> I need a max of TIME it took for a gc-minor and the TOTAL time it took
> for a gc-minor (per query) (ideally same for gc-walkroots and
> gc-collect-step)
>
>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Martin Koch <m...@issuu.com> wrote:
>> Here are the collated results of running each query. For each run, I count
>> how many of each of the pypy debug lines i get. I.e. there were 668 runs
>> that printed 58 loglines that contain "{gc-minor" which was eventually
>> followed by "gc-minor}". I have also counted if the query was slow;
>> interestingly, not all the queries with many gc-minors were slow (but all
>> slow queries had a gc-minor).
>>
>> Please let me know if this is unclear :)
>>
>> 668 gc-minor:58 gc-minor-walkroots:58
>> 10 gc-minor:58 gc-minor-walkroots:58 gc-collect-step:5
>> 140 gc-minor:59 gc-minor-walkroots:59
>> 1 gc-minor:8441 gc-minor-walkroots:8441 gc-collect-step:8403
>> 1 gc-minor:9300 gc-minor-walkroots:9300 gc-collect-step:9249
>> 9 gc-minor:9643 slow:1 gc-minor-walkroots:9643 gc-collect-step:9589
>> 1 gc-minor:9644 slow:1 gc-minor-walkroots:9644 gc-collect-step:9590
>> 10 gc-minor:9647 slow:1 gc-minor-walkroots:9647 gc-collect-step:9609
>> 1 gc-minor:9663 gc-minor-walkroots:9663 gc-collect-step:9614
>> 1 jit-backend-dump:5 gc-minor:58 gc-minor-walkroots:58
>> 1 jit-log-compiling-loop:1 gc-collect-step:8991 jit-backend-dump:78
>> jit-backend:3 jit-log-noopt-loop:6 jit-log-virtualstate:3 gc-minor:9030
>> jit-tracing:3 gc-minor-walkroots:9030 jit-optimize:6
>> jit-log-short-preamble:2 jit-backend-addr:3 jit-log-opt-loop:1
>> jit-mem-looptoken-alloc:3 jit-abort:3 jit-log-rewritten-bridge:2
>> jit-log-rewritten-loop:1 jit-log-opt-bridge:2 jit-log-compiling-bridge:2
>> jit-resume:84
>> 1 jit-log-compiling-loop:1 jit-backend-dump:13 jit-backend:1
>> jit-log-noopt-loop:2 gc-minor:60 jit-tracing:1 gc-minor-walkroots:60
>> jit-optimize:2 jit-log-short-preamble:1 jit-backend-addr:1
>> jit-log-opt-loop:1 jit-mem-looptoken-alloc:1 jit-log-rewritten-loop:1
>> jit-resume:14
>> 1 jit-log-compiling-loop:1 jit-backend-dump:73 jit-backend:3
>> jit-log-noopt-loop:6 jit-log-virtualstate:3 gc-minor:60 jit-tracing:3
>> gc-minor-walkroots:60 jit-optimize:6 jit-log-short-preamble:2
>> jit-backend-addr:3 jit-log-opt-loop:1 jit-mem-looptoken-alloc:3 jit-abort:3
>> jit-log-rewritten-bridge:2 jit-log-rewritten-loop:1 jit-log-opt-bridge:2
>> jit-log-compiling-bridge:2 jit-resume:84
>> 2 jit-log-compiling-loop:1 jit-backend-dump:78 jit-backend:3
>> jit-log-noopt-loop:6 jit-log-virtualstate:3 gc-minor:61 jit-tracing:3
>> gc-minor-walkroots:61 jit-optimize:6 jit-log-short-preamble:2
>> jit-backend-addr:3 jit-log-opt-loop:1 jit-mem-looptoken-alloc:3 jit-abort:3
>> jit-log-rewritten-bridge:2 jit-log-rewritten-loop:1 jit-log-opt-bridge:2
>> jit-log-compiling-bridge:2 jit-resume:84
>> 1 jit-log-short-preamble:2 jit-log-compiling-loop:2
>> jit-backend-dump:92 jit-log-noopt-loop:7 jit-log-virtualstate:3 gc-minor:61
>> jit-tracing:4 gc-minor-walkroots:61 jit-optimize:7 jit-backend:4
>> jit-backend-addr:4 jit-log-opt-loop:2 jit-mem-looptoken-alloc:4 jit-abort:3
>> jit-log-rewritten-bridge:2 jit-log-rewritten-loop:2 jit-log-opt-bridge:2
>> jit-log-compiling-bridge:2 jit-resume:104
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> /Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski <fij...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski <fij...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> are you *sure* it's the walkroots that take that long and not
>>>> something else (like gc-minor)? More of those mean that you allocate a
>>>> lot more surviving objects. Can you do two things:
>>>>
>>>> a) take a max of gc-minor (and gc-minor-stackwalk), per request
>>>> b) take the sum of those
>>>>
>>>> and plot them
>>>
>>> ^^^ or just paste the results actually
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Martin Koch <m...@issuu.com> wrote:
>>>>> Well, then it works out to around 2.5GHz, which seems reasonable. But
>>>>> it
>>>>> doesn't alter the conclusion from the previous email: The slow queries
>>>>> then
>>>>> all have a duration around 34*10^9 units, 'normal' queries 1*10^9
>>>>> units, or
>>>>> .4 seconds at this conversion. Also, the log shows that a slow query
>>>>> performs many more gc-minor operations than a 'normal' one: 9600
>>>>> gc-collect-step/gc-minor/gc-minor-walkroots operations vs 58.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the question becomes: Why do we get this large spike in
>>>>> gc-minor-walkroots, and, in particular, is there any way to avoid it :)
>>>>> ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> /Martin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski <fij...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it's the cycles of your CPU
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Martin Koch <m...@issuu.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> What is the unit? Perhaps I'm being thick here, but I can't
>>>>>>> correlate it
>>>>>>> with seconds (which the program does print out). Slow runs are
>>>>>>> around 13
>>>>>>> seconds, but are around 34*10^9(dec), 0x800000000 timestamp units
>>>>>>> (e.g.
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> 0x2b994c9d31889c to 0x2b9944ab8c4f49).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski
>>>>>>> <fij...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The number of lines is nonsense. This is a timestamp in hex.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Martin Koch <m...@issuu.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Based On Maciej's suggestion, I tried the following
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PYPYLOG=- pypy mem.py 10000000 > out
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This generates a logfile which looks something like this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> start-->
>>>>>>>>> [2b99f1981b527e] {gc-minor
>>>>>>>>> [2b99f1981ba680] {gc-minor-walkroots
>>>>>>>>> [2b99f1981c2e02] gc-minor-walkroots}
>>>>>>>>> [2b99f19890d750] gc-minor}
>>>>>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> <--stop
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It turns out that the culprit is a lot of MINOR collections.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I base this on the following observations:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can't understand the format of the timestamp on each logline
>>>>>>>>> (the
>>>>>>>>> "[2b99f1981b527e]"). From what I can see in the code, this should
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> output
>>>>>>>>> from time.clock(), but that doesn't return a number like that
>>>>>>>>> when I
>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>> pypy interactively
>>>>>>>>> Instead, I count the number of debug lines between start--> and
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> corresponding <--stop.
>>>>>>>>> Most runs have a few hundred lines of output between start/stop
>>>>>>>>> All slow runs have very close to 57800 lines out output between
>>>>>>>>> start/stop
>>>>>>>>> One such sample does 9609 gc-collect-step operations, 9647
>>>>>>>>> gc-minor
>>>>>>>>> operations, and 9647 gc-minor-walkroots operations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> /Martin
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Maciej Fijalkowski
>>>>>>>>> <fij...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> there is an environment variable PYPYLOG=gc:- (where - is
>>>>>>>>>> stdout)
>>>>>>>>>> which will do that for you btw.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> maybe you can find out what's that using profiling or valgrind?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:34 PM, Martin Koch <m...@issuu.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I have tried getting the pypy source and building my own
>>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> pypy. I
>>>>>>>>>>> have modified
>>>>>>>>>>> rpython/memory/gc/incminimark.py:major_collection_step()
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> print out when it starts and when it stops. Apparently, the
>>>>>>>>>>> slow
>>>>>>>>>>> queries
>>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>>> NOT occur during major_collection_step; at least, I have not
>>>>>>>>>>> observed
>>>>>>>>>>> major
>>>>>>>>>>> step output during a query execution. So, apparently,
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> blocking. This could be another aspect of the GC, but it could
>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> anything else.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just to be sure, I have tried running the same application in
>>>>>>>>>>> python
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> garbage collection disabled. I don't see the problem there, so
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> somehow
>>>>>>>>>>> related to either GC or the runtime somehow.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>> /Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Martin Koch <m...@issuu.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We have hacked up a small sample that seems to exhibit the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We basically generate a linked list of objects. To increase
>>>>>>>>>>>> connectedness,
>>>>>>>>>>>> elements in the list hold references (dummy_links) to 10
>>>>>>>>>>>> randomly
>>>>>>>>>>>> chosen
>>>>>>>>>>>> previous elements in the list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We then time a function that traverses 50000 elements from
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>>>>>> random start point. If the traversal reaches the end of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> list,
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>>>>>>> traverse one of the dummy links. Thus, exactly 50K elements
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> traversed
>>>>>>>>>>>> every time. To generate some garbage, we build a list holding
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> traversed
>>>>>>>>>>>> elements and a dummy list of characters.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Timings for the last 100 runs are stored in a circular
>>>>>>>>>>>> buffer. If
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> elapsed time for the last run is more than twice the average
>>>>>>>>>>>> time,
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> print
>>>>>>>>>>>> out a line with the elapsed time, the threshold, and the 90%
>>>>>>>>>>>> runtime
>>>>>>>>>>>> (we
>>>>>>>>>>>> would like to see that the mean runtime does not increase
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> number of
>>>>>>>>>>>> elements in the list, but that the max time does increase
>>>>>>>>>>>> (linearly
>>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> number of object, i guess); traversing 50K elements should be
>>>>>>>>>>>> independent of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the memory size).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We have tried monitoring memory consumption by external
>>>>>>>>>>>> inspection,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot consistently verify that memory is deallocated at the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> we see slow requests. Perhaps the pypy runtime doesn't always
>>>>>>>>>>>> return
>>>>>>>>>>>> freed
>>>>>>>>>>>> pages back to the OS?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Using top, we observe that 10M elements allocates around 17GB
>>>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>>>> building, 20M elements 26GB, 30M elements 28GB (and grows to
>>>>>>>>>>>> 35GB
>>>>>>>>>>>> shortly
>>>>>>>>>>>> after building).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is output from a few runs with different number of
>>>>>>>>>>>> elements:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> pypy mem.py 10000000
>>>>>>>>>>>> start build
>>>>>>>>>>>> end build 84.142424
>>>>>>>>>>>> that took a long time elapsed: 13.230586 slow_threshold:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.495401
>>>>>>>>>>>> 90th_quantile_runtime: 0.421558
>>>>>>>>>>>> that took a long time elapsed: 13.016531 slow_threshold:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.488160
>>>>>>>>>>>> 90th_quantile_runtime: 0.423441
>>>>>>>>>>>> that took a long time elapsed: 13.032537 slow_threshold:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1.474563
>>>>>>>>>>>> 90th_quantile_runtime: 0.419817
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> pypy mem.py 20000000
>>>>>>>>>>>> start build
>>>>>>>>>>>> end build 180.823105
>>>>>>>>>>>> that took a long time elapsed: 27.346064 slow_threshold:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.295146
>>>>>>>>>>>> 90th_quantile_runtime: 0.434726
>>>>>>>>>>>> that took a long time elapsed: 26.028852 slow_threshold:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.283927
>>>>>>>>>>>> 90th_quantile_runtime: 0.374190
>>>>>>>>>>>> that took a long time elapsed: 25.432279 slow_threshold:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.279631
>>>>>>>>>>>> 90th_quantile_runtime: 0.371502
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> pypy mem.py 30000000
>>>>>>>>>>>> start build
>>>>>>>>>>>> end build 276.217811
>>>>>>>>>>>> that took a long time elapsed: 40.993855 slow_threshold:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.188464
>>>>>>>>>>>> 90th_quantile_runtime: 0.459891
>>>>>>>>>>>> that took a long time elapsed: 41.693553 slow_threshold:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.183003
>>>>>>>>>>>> 90th_quantile_runtime: 0.393654
>>>>>>>>>>>> that took a long time elapsed: 39.679769 slow_threshold:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.190782
>>>>>>>>>>>> 90th_quantile_runtime: 0.393677
>>>>>>>>>>>> that took a long time elapsed: 43.573411 slow_threshold:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.239637
>>>>>>>>>>>> 90th_quantile_runtime: 0.393654
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Code below
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> import time
>>>>>>>>>>>> from random import randint, choice
>>>>>>>>>>>> import sys
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> allElems = {}
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> class Node:
>>>>>>>>>>>> def __init__(self, v_):
>>>>>>>>>>>> self.v = v_
>>>>>>>>>>>> self.next = None
>>>>>>>>>>>> self.dummy_data = [randint(0,100)
>>>>>>>>>>>> for _ in xrange(randint(50,100))]
>>>>>>>>>>>> allElems[self.v] = self
>>>>>>>>>>>> if self.v > 0:
>>>>>>>>>>>> self.dummy_links = [allElems[randint(0,
>>>>>>>>>>>> self.v-1)]
>>>>>>>>>>>> for _
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> xrange(10)]
>>>>>>>>>>>> else:
>>>>>>>>>>>> self.dummy_links = [self]
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> def set_next(self, l):
>>>>>>>>>>>> self.next = l
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> def follow(node):
>>>>>>>>>>>> acc = []
>>>>>>>>>>>> count = 0
>>>>>>>>>>>> cur = node
>>>>>>>>>>>> assert node.v is not None
>>>>>>>>>>>> assert cur is not None
>>>>>>>>>>>> while count < 50000:
>>>>>>>>>>>> # return a value; generate some garbage
>>>>>>>>>>>> acc.append((cur.v,
>>>>>>>>>>>> [choice("abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz")
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> x
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> xrange(100)]))
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> # if we have reached the end, chose a random link
>>>>>>>>>>>> cur = choice(cur.dummy_links) if cur.next is None
>>>>>>>>>>>> else
>>>>>>>>>>>> cur.next
>>>>>>>>>>>> count += 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> return acc
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> def build(num_elems):
>>>>>>>>>>>> start = time.time()
>>>>>>>>>>>> print "start build"
>>>>>>>>>>>> root = Node(0)
>>>>>>>>>>>> cur = root
>>>>>>>>>>>> for x in xrange(1, num_elems):
>>>>>>>>>>>> e = Node(x)
>>>>>>>>>>>> cur.next = e
>>>>>>>>>>>> cur = e
>>>>>>>>>>>> print "end build %f" % (time.time() - start)
>>>>>>>>>>>> return root
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> num_timings = 100
>>>>>>>>>>>> if __name__ == "__main__":
>>>>>>>>>>>> num_elems = int(sys.argv[1])
>>>>>>>>>>>> build(num_elems)
>>>>>>>>>>>> total = 0
>>>>>>>>>>>> timings = [0.0] * num_timings # run times for the last
>>>>>>>>>>>> num_timings
>>>>>>>>>>>> runs
>>>>>>>>>>>> i = 0
>>>>>>>>>>>> beginning = time.time()
>>>>>>>>>>>> while time.time() - beginning < 600:
>>>>>>>>>>>> start = time.time()
>>>>>>>>>>>> elem = allElems[randint(0, num_elems - 1)]
>>>>>>>>>>>> assert(elem is not None)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> lst = follow(elem)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> total += choice(lst)[0] # use the return value for
>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> end = time.time()
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> elapsed = end-start
>>>>>>>>>>>> timings[i % num_timings] = elapsed
>>>>>>>>>>>> if (i > num_timings):
>>>>>>>>>>>> slow_time = 2 * sum(timings)/num_timings # slow
>>>>>>>>>>>> defined
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2*avg run time
>>>>>>>>>>>> if (elapsed > slow_time):
>>>>>>>>>>>> print "that took a long time elapsed: %f
>>>>>>>>>>>> slow_threshold:
>>>>>>>>>>>> %f 90th_quantile_runtime: %f" % \
>>>>>>>>>>>> (elapsed, slow_time,
>>>>>>>>>>>> sorted(timings)[int(num_timings*.9)])
>>>>>>>>>>>> i += 1
>>>>>>>>>>>> print total
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 7:45 PM, Maciej Fijalkowski
>>>>>>>>>>>> <fij...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Martin Koch <m...@issuu.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Armin, Maciej
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for responding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm in the process of trying to determine what (if any) of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position to share, and I'll get back to you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Allowing hinting to the GC would be good. Even better
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow me to (transparently) allocate objects in unmanaged
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> memory,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would expect that to be a tall order :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Martin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Martin.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Note that in case you want us to do the work of isolating
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we do offer paid support to do that (then we can sign NDAs
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff).
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Otherwise we would be more than happy to fix bugs once you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> isolate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> part you can share freely :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
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