Guillaume Proux schrieb: > Dear all, > [snip] > > In this respect, I strongly believe that support non-ASCII identifiers > as proposed by PEP3131 would improve a number of things: > - discussion and uptake of python in "non-ascii" countries
While still separating them from ascii-countries. They would start writing programs that expose foreign-phrased APIs but we would deny using them because we couldn't even type a single word! > - ability for children to learn programming in their own language (I > started programming at 7 years old and would have been very disturbed > if I could not use my own language to type in programs) AFAIK, allowing non-ascii identifiers would still *not* translate python. They would still have to struggle with every part of python that is builtin, i.e. builtins (you could let non-ascii identifiers reference them, though) and keywords. Better come up with some proposal to translate python (perhaps PyPy could do something here?) or all python-scripts (I think a translator could do its job here) to improve the situation. > - increase of the number of new "interesting" packages from non-ascii > countries As stated above, we could not use them though. Bad deal, if you ask me! > - ability for local programmers and local companies to provide > "bridges" between international (english) APIs and local APIs. I don't get the improvement offered by this one. We should *allow* non-ascii identifiers to **require** wrappers? > - Increase the number of python users (from 7 to 77 years old) Works in English, too. > > In my humble opinion, now that UTF8 is accepted as the standard source > code encoding, it is very difficult to understand why we should start > putting restrictions on the kind of identifiers that are used (which > would force people to comment line by line as they do now!). No, we do not restrict them, we simply do not allow them (what is a huge difference here). UTF-8 will be allowed (*and* enforced by default) as a file encoding, i.e. strings and comments will be affected. I don't see the real restriction here. Correct me please, if I'm wrong. > > When I am programming in Python, I am VERY DISTURBED when the code I > write contains much comment. It needs to be readable just by glancing > at it. OTOH, I cannot glance at japanese code and know what it means. So, better the japanese developer named it badly but explained it than requiring me to consult a dictionary. > > However, for most of the people who are core python developers, you > should ask what is the typical reading speed for "ascii" characters > for a e.g. standard Japanese pupil. You would be very surprised how > slow that is. In my opinion (after leaving in Japan for quite a bit), > people are very slow to read ASCII characters and this definitely > restrain their programming productivity and expressiveness. See above, at least *my* reading speed for japanese text tends to zero (if not less!). > > Of course, for things like "standard libraries", I think that > self-regulation and project based regulation will impose ASCII > charsets for the base libraries and APIs but i really believe that > letting people use their own charset to express themself will REALLY > give them the productivity boost they would deserve from python. They're free to express their thoughts in comments, today, still separating them from ascii-developers. > > Let me know if you have any question. > > Regards, > > Guillaume I do not think allowing people to program in *their* language would enhance integration. It would just split the python community *even* more. I like communicating with non-native English speakers much more than not communicating with them at all because they got their own language in there. Additionally, I think the reason for rejection of this PEP is the same one that applied to all those "Let the user extend Python's grammar at runtime" -- one developer would have to learn a completely new language for understanding a program. To communicate, we just have to find (or agree on) a common point between devs. Python is English, that's a matter of fact IMO. It is the common language that makes us a community and *one* language. I'm, well, -1 on this (even though I don't know if I got a voice here). -- Greetings, Stargaming _______________________________________________ Python-3000 mailing list [email protected] http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-3000 Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-3000/archive%40mail-archive.com
