Bugs item #1202533, was opened at 2005-05-15 23:43
Message generated for change (Comment added) made by arigo
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Category: Python Interpreter Core
Group: None
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Submitted By: Armin Rigo (arigo)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: a bunch of infinite C recursions
Initial Comment:
There is a general way to cause unchecked infinite recursion at the C level,
and I have no clue at the moment how it could be reasonably fixed. The idea is
to define special __xxx__ methods in such a way that no Python code is actually
called before they invoke more special methods (e.g. themselves).
>>> class A: pass
>>> A.__mul__=new.instancemethod(operator.mul,None,A)
>>> A()*2
Segmentation fault
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>Comment By: Armin Rigo (arigo)
Date: 2006-06-23 20:05
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I'd have answer "good idea, go ahead", if it were not for
what I found out a few days ago, which is that:
* you already checked yourself a Py_EnterRecursiveCall() into
PyObject_Call() -- that was in r46806 (I guess you forgot)
* I got a case of Python hanging on me in an infinite busy
loop, which turned out to be caused by this (!)
So I reverted r46806 in r47601, added a test (see log for an
explanation), and moved the PyEnter_RecursiveCall()
elsewhere, where it still catches the originally intended
case, but where it will probably not catch the cases of the
present tracker any more. Not sure what to do about it. I'd
suggest to be extra careful here; better some extremely
obscure and ad-hoc ways to provoke a segfault, rather than
busy-loop hangs in previously working programs...
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Comment By: Brett Cannon (bcannon)
Date: 2006-06-23 19:44
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Do you have any objection to using the
Py_EnterRecursiveCall() in PyObject_Call(), Armin, to at
least deal with the crashers it fixes?
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Comment By: Terry J. Reedy (tjreedy)
Date: 2005-09-01 20:39
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Bug submission [ 1267884 ] crash recursive __getattr__
appears to be another example of this problem, so I closed it as
a duplicate. If that turns out to be wrong, it should be reopened.
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Comment By: Armin Rigo (arigo)
Date: 2005-05-29 12:23
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Adding a Py_EnterRecursiveCall() in PyObject_Call() seems to fix all the
examples so far, with the exception of the "__get__=getattr" one, where we get
a strange result instead of a RuntimeError (I suspect careless exception eating
is taking place).
The main loop in ceval.c doesn't call PyObject_Call() very often: it usually
dispatches directly itself for performance, which is exactly what we want here,
as recursion from ceval.c is already protected by a Py_EnterRecursiveCall().
So this change has a minor impact on performance. Pystone for example issues
only three PyObject_Call() per loop, to call classes. This has an
almost-unmeasurable impact ( < 0.4%).
Of course I'll think a bit more and search for examples that don't go through
PyObject_Call() :-)
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Comment By: Armin Rigo (arigo)
Date: 2005-05-23 13:52
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When I thought about the same problem for PyPy, I imagined
that it would be easy to use the call graph computed by
the type inferencer ("annotator"). We would find an
algorithm that figures out the minimal number of places
that need a Py_EnterRecursiveCall so that every cycle goes
through at least one of them. For CPython it might be
possible to go down the same path if someone can find a C
code analyzer smart enough to provide the required
information -- a call graph including indirect calls through
function pointers. Not sure it's sane, though.
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Comment By: Michael Hudson (mwh)
Date: 2005-05-23 13:16
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I agree with Armin that this could easily be a never ending story. Perhaps
it would suffice to sprinkle Py_EnterRecursiveCall around as we find holes.
It might have to, because I can't really think of a better way of doing this.
The only other approach I know is that of SBCL (a Common Lisp
implementation): it mprotects a page at the end of the stack and installs a
SIGSEGV handler (and uses sigaltstack) that knows how to abort the
current lisp operation. Somehow, I don't think we want to go down this
line.
Anybody have any other ideas?
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Comment By: Martin v. Löwis (loewis)
Date: 2005-05-23 13:06
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It has been a long-time policy that you should not be able
to crash the Python interpreter even with malicious code. I
think this is a good policy, because it provides people
always with a back-trace, which is much easier to analyse
than a core dump.
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Comment By: Josiah Carlson (josiahcarlson)
Date: 2005-05-23 07:41
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I personally think that the CPython runtime should make a
best-effort to not crash when running code that makes sense.
But when CPython is running on input that is nonsensical
(in each of the examples that Armin provides, no return
value could make sense), I think that as long as the
behavior is stated clearly, it is sufficient.
Certainly it would be nice if CPython did not crash in such
cases, but I don't know if the performance penalty and code
maintenance outweigh the cases where users write bad code.
Perhaps a compile-time option, enabled by default based on
whether or not we want a safer or faster CPython. Of course
maintenance is still a chore, and it is one additional set
of calls that C extension writers may need to be aware of
(if their code can be recursively called, and they want to
participate in the infinite recursion detection).
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Comment By: Armin Rigo (arigo)
Date: 2005-05-20 21:46
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Yes, but I'm concerned that we would need to add it really really many places,
and probably forget some even then. E.g. I just thought about:
lst = [apply]
lst.append(lst)
apply(*lst)
It seems a bit hopeless, honestly...
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Comment By: Martin v. Löwis (loewis)
Date: 2005-05-20 21:22
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Wouldn't adding Py_EnterRecursiveCall into many places solve
the problem?
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Comment By: Armin Rigo (arigo)
Date: 2005-05-19 15:05
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This is not about the new module. The same example can be written as:
import types
class A: pass
A.__mul__ = types.MethodType(operator.mul, None, A)
If this still looks essentially like an indirect way of using the new module,
here is another example:
class A(str): __get__ = getattr
a = A('a')
A.a = a
a.a
Or, as I just found out, new-style classes are again vulnerable to the older
example based __call__, which was fixed for old-style classes:
class A(object): pass
A.__call__ = A()
A()()
I'm not denying that these examples look convoluted :-)
My point here is that we can basically build a lot of examples based only on
core (if not necessarily widely understood) language features. It appears to
go against the basic hope that CPython cannot be crashed as long as you don't
use features explicitely marked as dangerous.
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Comment By: Terry J. Reedy (tjreedy)
Date: 2005-05-19 02:02
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On Windows, this caused the interactive window to just
disappear.so I suspect something similar occurred.
New is a known dangerous, use at your own risk, implementation
specific module whose use, like byte code hacking, is outside
the language proper. Both bypass normal object creation syntax
and its checks and both can create invalid objects. A hold-your-
hand inplementation would not give such access to internals.
Lib Ref 3.28 says "This module provides a low-level interface to
the interpreter, so care must be exercised when using this
module. It is possible to supply non-sensical arguments which
crash the interpreter when the object is used." Should more or
different be said?
If not, I suspect this should be closed as 'won't fix', as in 'won't
remove the inherently dangerous new module'.
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