New submission from Terry J. Reedy <[email protected]>:
The main operational difference between the standard Python REPL and IDLE's
Shell is that the latter operates with complete Python statements rather than
physical lines. Shell keeps the '>>>' prompt, but with the expanded meaning of
"Enter a complete Python statement" rather than just "Enter the first line of a
Python statement". It omits the consequently superfluous continuation prompts,
which would mostly be a nuisance if left.
Currently, the prompt precedes and indents the first line of code. This causes
multiple problems. Internally, first lines have to be treated differently from
the rest. This has lead to bugs, mostly but not all fixed. Externally,
indentation depends on the prompt and does not look right or work right,
compared to the same code in a proper editor. And it lead to the use of Tab
for indents.
The use of Tab for Shell indents was recognized as a problem by 2005. #1196946
proposed using the same space indents as in the editor, resulting, for
instance, in
>>> if a:
if b:
print(a+b)
KBK rejected this with "Doesn't really solve the problem."
In 2010, #7676 suggested 4 space indents again and added 2 variations: 8 space
indents, and 8 followed by 4, etc. OP Cherniavsky Beni noted that Tab indents
are "inconsistent with PEP 8; what's worse, it's makes copy-paste code between
the shell and editor windows confusing and dangerous!" Raymond Hettinger later
added that tabs are a "major PITA" and "a continual source of frustration for
students".
Starting with msg151418 in 1212, my response was much the same as KBK's. To
me, the underlying problem is having the prompt physically indent the first
physical line relative to the following lines. I consider this IDLE's single
biggest design wart. I proposed then 3 possible solutions to avoid the first
line non-significant indent. They are, with current comments, ...
1. Prompt on a line by itself (vertical separation).
This is easy, and allows for an expanded active prompt, such as
>>> Enter a complete Python statement on the lines below.
This says exactly what the user should do and should help avoid confusion with
a command-line prompt. ("I entered 'cd path' and got 'SyntaxError'".)
Once a statement is entered, the instruction is obsolete. Only '>>>' is needed,
to identify input from output. I think putting '>>>' above past input works
less well than for current input. I will come back to this proposal below,
after 3.
2. No input prompt; instead mark output (with #, for instance).
Possible, but confronting beginners with no prompt would likely leave them
wondering what to do. But this is a possible savefile format, one that could
be run or edited. (A savefile with only the code would do the same.)
3. Prompt in a margin, as with line numbers (horizontal separation).
In 1214, I realized that the 'margin' should be implemented as a separate
sidebar widget, which was initially being developed for editor line numbers.
We now have that, and a shell sidebar should be fairly easy. I will open a
separate issue with a fairly specific design. Basically, the first lines of
input, stderr output, and stdout output would be flagged with, for instance,
'>>>', 'err', and 'out'. This should be done before the additional proposal
below.
IDLE's Shell should isolate user input not only from prompts. Debug on/off
messages, warnings, and delayed program output can also interfere. I think
that IDLE's Shell should consist of an input and output history area with
sidebar, fixed prompt and separator line such as in 1. above, and active input
area.
The history area, as now, would be read-only except when responding to input()
in the running code. The change is that it would receive all messages from
IDLE and asynchronous program output. The input area would be a specialized
editor area. When input code is run, it would be copied above the separator
prompt with '>>>' added to the sidebar, opposite the first line.
I believe that the easiest implementation would be to use a label for the fixed
prompt line and a specialized editor that runs statements as entered. The
editing and smart indents would be the same as in a regular editor. Once this
is done, we could discuss refinements such as allowing pasting of multiple
statements.
----------
assignee: terry.reedy
components: IDLE
messages: 350000
nosy: cheryl.sabella, rhettinger, taleinat, terry.reedy
priority: normal
severity: normal
stage: needs patch
status: open
title: IDLE Shell: isolate user code input
type: behavior
versions: Python 3.7, Python 3.8, Python 3.9
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Python tracker <[email protected]>
<https://bugs.python.org/issue37892>
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