On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 8:58 AM Ronald Oussoren <ronaldousso...@mac.com> wrote:
> > > On 29 Mar 2022, at 00:34, Brett Cannon <br...@python.org> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 11:52 AM Christopher Barker <python...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On Mon, Mar 28, 2022 at 11:29 AM Paul Moore <p.f.mo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> To be honest, I feel like I'm just reiterating stuff I've said before >>> here, and I think the same is true of the points I'm responding to >> >> ... >> >>> (I'm not *against* going over the debate again, >>> it helps make sure people haven't changed their minds, but it's >>> important to be clear that none of the practical facts have changed, >>> if that is the case). >>> >> >> Maybe there's a way to make this discussion (it feels more like a >> discussion than debate at the moment) more productive by writing some >> things down. I'm not sure it's a PEP, but some kind of: >> >> "policy for the stdlib" document in which we could capture the primary >> points of view, places where there's consensus, etc. would be helpful to >> keep us retreading this over and over again. >> >> I suggest this without the bandwidth to actually shepherd the project, >> but if someone wants to, I think it would be a great idea. >> > > Once > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-committ...@python.org/thread/5EUZLT5PNA4HT42NGB5WVN5YWW5ASTT5/ > is considered resolved, the next part of my "what *is* the stdlib" plan > is to finally try to suss all of this out and more-or-less write a stdlib > policy PEP so we stop talking about this. My guess it will be more of > guidance about what we want the stdlib to be and thus guide what things > belong in it. No ETA on that work since I also have four other big Python > projects on the go right now whose work I am constantly alternating between. > > > Having such a policy is a good thing and helps in evolving the stdlib, but > I wonder if the lack of such a document is the real problem. IMHO the > main problem is that the CPython team is very small and therefore has > little bandwidth for maintaining, let alone evolving, large parts of the > stdlib. In that it doesn’t help that some parts of the stdlib have APIs > that make it hard to make modifications (such as distutils where > effectively everything is part of the public API). Shrinking the stdlib > helps in the maintenance burden, but feels as a partial solution. > You're right that is the fundamental problem. But for me this somewhat stems from the fact that we don't have a shared understanding of what the stdlib *is*, and so the stdlib is a bit unbounded in its size and scope. That leads to a stdlib which is hard to maintain. It's just like dealing with any scarce resource: you try to cut back on your overall use as best as you can and then become more efficient with what you must still consume; I personally think we don't have an answer to the "must consume" part of that sentence that leads us to "cut back" to a size we can actually keep maintained so we don't have 1.6K open PRs <https://github.com/python/cpython/pulls>. > That said, I have no ideas on how a better stdlib development proces > would look like, let alone on how to get there. > I did what I could when I helped get us over to GitHub and what Mariatta helped bring to our workflow. > > Ronald > > > -Brett > > >> >> -CHB >> >> -- >> Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris) >> >> Python Language Consulting >> - Teaching >> - Scientific Software Development >> - Desktop GUI and Web Development >> - wxPython, numpy, scipy, Cython >> _______________________________________________ >> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org >> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ >> Message archived at >> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GAZAFRFVJVQZMEIHTQUJASP7VRAKA5RR/ >> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ >> > _______________________________________________ > Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PC67DOLDEQXIAGXEB2QXCGS3C4B6PTCY/ > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > > > — > > Twitter / micro.blog: @ronaldoussoren > Blog: https://blog.ronaldoussoren.net/ > >
_______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TCS3VOPVYI254GSC3OXGVB6ISUSMN7W7/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
