Hi, Steve, Petr: sorry if you feel that I didn't take your feedback in account, it's not case. Thanks for your valuable feedback. It seems like there was some misunderstanding.
On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 2:49 AM Gregory P. Smith <g...@krypto.org> wrote: > Thanks for bringing this up on python-dev, Victor. That was good. But the > point of the discussion should've been to continue working with people based > on the replies rather than proceeding to merge removals of the APIs after > people said they used them. (echoing Steve and Petr here...) > > We discussed this on the steering council today. These APIs were in a weird > state and despite past decisions at the time of PEP-523 in 2016 they should > be treated as public-ish rather than entirely private. Because we published a > document saying "here they are, use them!" and multiple projects have done so > to good effect. > > For 3.11 we'd like those PRs reverted. Ok, I created https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/32343 to revert these two PRs. I will merge it as soon as the Python 3.11 release manager (Pablo) unblocks the main branch (he is currently preparing the alpha7 release). On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 12:36 PM Steve Dower <steve.do...@python.org> wrote: > I don't see any additional discussion on the bug, and the prevailing > opinion from actual users of this API is that it probably shouldn't > change, >From what I understood my change basically only impacts "pydevd" users. Fabio who works on that project said that he was fine with that change ("I'm ok with changes"): https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/XPDT55ANVKHGG74D62HDBOFLC4EXWJ26/ debugpy, ptvsd, PyDev, PyCharm and VSCode Python use the same code base: https://github.com/fabioz/PyDev.Debugger Jason Ansel of TorchDynamo was worried that the API couldn't be used anymore. I replied that the API remains available. It's just about adding a few lines of code (that I provided). For me, all impacted users were made aware and joined the discussion. It's very rare to be able to reach *all* users impacted by an incompatible C API change! If I understood correctly, all questions were replied. For example, yes, the API remains accessible (with additional code), but no, sadly the API is not stable (can change at each 3.x.0 major release, but should not change in 3.x.y bugfix release). On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 12:36 PM Steve Dower <steve.do...@python.org> wrote: > and certainly shouldn't become internal without additional > guarantees about stability. The discussed API is not stable, Brett repeated that. The internal API is not stable on purpose. I missed the discussion proposing to design a stable API for PEP 523. PEP 523 users are that the API is unstable and seem to be used to update their code at each major (3.x) Python releases. I'm not surprised that a debugger which requires a fast low-level access to Python internals require that. Or are you talking about not breaking the API in 3.x.y bugfix releases? Currently, it's an unwritten rule. IMO it's well respected by all core devs who understand that it's important to not break any API, including private and internal APIs, in minor bugfix releases. My changes are unrelated to that. On Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 1:24 PM Petr Viktorin <encu...@gmail.com> wrote: > Now, the people who'd like a non-breaking solution will now need rush to > develop and merge one until the next release, or the API breaks for > users and it'll be too late to do anything about it. We are talking about two projects (pydevd and TorchDynamo) and there are 6 months until Python 3.11 final release (PEP 664). We are still at the alpha phase, no? I don't see why a change only affecting two projects is a big deal, knowing that these two projects have been made aware, and I offered a patch that they can apply right now. They don't need to wait for next October to apply my patch. Anyway, I will revert my changes (once the main branch is unblocked) to apply the SC's decision. Victor -- Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TUKA6R7VFIKAWBA2XA7QRNXKGKXDH3WG/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
