On 21 March 2013 10:32, Terry Reedy <tjre...@udel.edu> wrote: > On 3/21/2013 5:27 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > >> Can I suggest that debates about the capability of Windows command >> line programming are off-topic here? > > > I respectfully disagree, unless you say that the whole thread is off topic. > If it is okay for people to say that IDLE, including the IDLE interactive > interpreter shell is ugly, quirky, broken, badly maintained, and > disfunctional, without giving hardly any facts or details to back up or > explain the claims, and then claim it is so bad that it should be banished, > then to me it is perfectly on topic for me to point out that the > alternative, the CP shell, is objectively far worse in multiple respects. > Yes, I gave some facts for the benefit of those who were willing to consider > my claim that IDLE is better.
I agree entirely that unsubstantiated claims of "it's dreadful" are just as unacceptable when referring to IDLE. And I'm happy to accept that you find IDLE better - although I'd take issue with a claim that it's objectively better for everyone. I'd rather that we focus on dealing with genuine issues as reported by users (e.g., the comments from people working with IDLE in training courses). One difference, though, is that the quality of IDLE is within our control, so comments about how it can be improved are valid - whereas comments about the Windows console are simply statements of a reality we have no means of addressing. >> it is what Windows users who use the command line are used to. > > I bet that 'Windows users who use the command line' are less than 10% of > Windows users. I have no figures one way or the other on that. You may well be right. Are we aiming at "all Windows users" here? All I can say is that my experience (in a corporate Windows-based environment) is that people who have any interest in learning or using Python are nearly always *also* command line users, and comfortable with it. They are often looking at Python as a step up from Windows batch files - and that is such a huge improvement that trivia like the way you select text in the console are completely irrelevant by comparison. My experience may well be atypical, I can't say. > I am willing to accept that you find it adequate. Why can't you accept that > I find it wretched, especially when I explained some of why rather than just > throwing it out as an opinion, and consider IDLE to be wonderfully better? I'm happy to accept that. What I don't know (no criticism here, but it's something I mentioned at the start of my post) is whether you use Windows as your main platform, and so what you're implying in terms of how to generalise the fact that you prefer IDLE (I assume you want me to generalise, and not just take your comments as a statement of your personal preference). Much of the comments about the Windows experience *seem to me* to come from Unix users who only occasionally use Windows and find the experience unpleasant. A bit more clarity as to where the people advocating particular actions are coming from would help (because I, and possibly others, may be wrong in that impression). Anyway, I was the one who claimed things were getting off-topic, so I'll stop at this point. I hope I haven't offended anyone - I didn't mean to. Paul _______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
