On 04.02.2016 14:09, Nick Coghlan wrote:
On 2 February 2016 at 06:39, Andrew Barnert via Python-Dev
<python-dev@python.org> wrote:
On Feb 1, 2016, at 09:59, mike.romb...@comcast.net wrote:
If the stdlib were to use implicit namespace packages
( https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0420/ ) and the various
loaders/importers as well, then python could do what I've done with an
embedded python application for years. Freeze the stdlib (or put it
in a zipfile or whatever is fast). Then arrange PYTHONPATH to first
look on the filesystem and then look in the frozen/ziped storage.
This is a great solution for experienced developers, but I think it would be
pretty bad for novices or transplants from other languages (maybe even
including Python 2).
There are already multiple duplicate questions every month on StackOverflow from people
asking "how do I find the source to stdlib module X". The canonical answer
starts off by explaining how to import the module and use its __file__, which everyone is
able to handle. If we have to instead explain how to work out the .py name from the
qualified module name, how to work out the stdlib path from sys.path, and then how to
find the source from those two things, with the caveat that it may not be installed at
all on some platforms, and how to make sure what they're asking about really is a stdlib
module, and how to make sure they aren't shadowing it with a module elsewhere on
sys.path, that's a lot more complicated. Especially when you consider that some people on
Windows and Mac are writing Python scripts without ever learning how to use the terminal
or find their Python packages via Explorer/Finder.
For folks that *do* know how to use the terminal:
$ python3 -m inspect --details inspect
Target: inspect
Origin: /usr/lib64/python3.4/inspect.py
Cached: /usr/lib64/python3.4/__pycache__/inspect.cpython-34.pyc
Loader: <_frozen_importlib.SourceFileLoader object at 0x7f0d8d23d9b0>
(And if they just want to *read* the source code, then leaving out
"--details" prints the full module source, and would work even if the
standard library were in a zip archive)
I want to see and debug also core Python in PyCharm and this is not
acceptable.
If you want to make it opt-in, fine. But opt-out is a no-go. I have a
side-by-side comparison as we use Java and Python in production. It's
the *ease of access* that makes Python great compared to Java.
@Andrew
Even for experienced developers it just sucks and there are more
important things to do.
Best,
Sven
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