Well then you can keep wondering. On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 13:59 Stefano Borini <stefano.bor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 21:54, Guido van Rossum <gu...@python.org> wrote: > > > > > > Because all the git history would be lost, and lots of code would break. > > > > Well, names could have been converted to their snake case counterpart, > > possibly even leaving the old camelcase form as deprecated, and in any > > case the breakage was already being performed for many modules such as > > e.g. StringIO.StringIO > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 13:14 Stefano Borini <stefano.bor...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >> > > >> Brings me to a question. Why weren't the logger and unittest module > > >> > > >> "PEP-8"ified in the transition from 2 to 3? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> And I agree that both modules are a bit odd. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 17:31, Christopher Barker <python...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > I agree about the heavy rhetoric, but the OP has a good point. I have > often thought the same thing. > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > Isn’t it a bit ironic that the stdlib version of an important module > is a poor example of Pythonic style[*] and we have to find a third party > package to do something as important as logging? > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > But the way forward would be to suggest an alternative, rather than > rant about it :-) > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > So the question is: would an update/addition/alternative API to the > logging module be considered for inclusion in the stdlib? > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > -CHB > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > [*] Of course, it is not a given that logging IS non-Pythonic, if the > community likes it as it is, then this, of course, is a non starter. > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > PS: unittest is another candidate, though even more integral to core > Python. But I’d love to see a “pytest lite” in the stdlib. I suspect I’m > not the only one that only uses unittest for the stdlib. > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > IIUC, both the logging and unittest design were inspired (if not > directly ported) from Java. Which explains their out-of-place feeling > design. As the say, “Python is not Java” — so maybe Python should not log > and test like java? > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > -CHB > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 7:41 AM Guido van Rossum <gu...@python.org> > wrote: > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> There is no need for all that heavy rhetoric. > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> There are many 3rd party modules that provide simpler interfaces to > the logging module. > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> Go do some Googling. > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 06:03 Adam Hendry < > adam.grant.hen...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> >>> > > >> > > >> >>> Dear Python-ideas, > > >> > > >> >>> > > >> > > >> >>> After looking at the `logging` module, I slammed my fist on my desk > and declared "There has to be a better way!" ( > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf-BqAjZb8M). Can we make the `logging` > module more "Pythonic" per Raymond Hettinger's presentation "Beyond PEP 8 > -- Best practices for beautiful intelligible code - PyCon 2015"? > > >> > > >> >>> > > >> > > >> >>> Thank you, > > >> > > >> >>> Adam Hendry > > >> > > >> >>> > > >> > > >> >>> > > >> > > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > > >> > > >> >>> > > >> > > >> >>> Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas@python.org > > >> > > >> >>> > > >> > > >> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to python-ideas-le...@python.org > > >> > > >> >>> > > >> > > >> >>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/ > > >> > > >> >>> > > >> > > >> >>> Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/BK6P32YAUZ2D763LJXKI6WNVUNHQIBKH/ > > >> > > >> >>> > > >> > > >> >>> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > > >> > > >> >>> > > >> > > >> >> -- > > >> > > >> >> --Guido (mobile) > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas@python.org > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> To unsubscribe send an email to python-ideas-le...@python.org > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/ > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/4M6NMEGR32DTY4T5S5UMTQV7LAQKEKCU/ > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> >> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > > >> > > >> >> > > >> > > >> > -- > > >> > > >> > Christopher Barker, PhD > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > Python Language Consulting > > >> > > >> > - Teaching > > >> > > >> > - Scientific Software Development > > >> > > >> > - Desktop GUI and Web Development > > >> > > >> > - wxPython, numpy, scipy, Cython > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > >> > Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas@python.org > > >> > > >> > To unsubscribe send an email to python-ideas-le...@python.org > > >> > > >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/ > > >> > > >> > Message archived at > https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/MXQPMHKA6D63OAAWJIOPF7QBSUB33FN2/ > > >> > > >> > Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/ > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> Kind regards, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Stefano Borini > > >> > > > -- > > > --Guido (mobile) > > > > > > > > -- > > Kind regards, > > > > Stefano Borini > > -- --Guido (mobile)
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