Hello, On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 17:52:20 +1100 Chris Angelico <ros...@gmail.com> wrote:
[] > That's why I dispute that this is an "astonishing oversight". It would > be nice to have the extra information, but given that Python and > Python programmers have survived for thirty years without it, I don't > think it's nearly as serious as you're implying. Ah, missed to reply to that one. Can judge it by myself: that's definitely not the first time I see that issue, where there was "something wrong" when getting exceptions when dealing with first-class function values. But I didn't even have a good understanding of what's wrong, and cases were either simple and obvious, or I reduced to print debugging. But now I'm working on a project where I consider UX to be important. And I consider a good UX for Python project not when it catch-all's exceptions and obfuscates the problem with a generic error message, and likewise not when there're 5 screenfuls of chained exceptions. I consider it's when there's human-sized backtrace, clearly pointing at the problem. And for that case, I figured that the backtrace is senseless and doesn't give a user of my program enough information to understand the issue. So, I stopped with writing my program, sat and scratched my head to understand what's wrong, then sat again to try a few different solutions (the original post should mirror that), until finally came to one which makes sense to the end user, and doesn't require any crutches. I won't be surprised if that's how other Python programmers dealt with it over decades - some didn't even dig into "what's wrong", "something is wrong" was enough for them to do in-mind-debugging. The other gritted teeth and recursed to print debugging, again without thinking too much what's wrong on the meta-level. And the remaining? Well, they now curse Python for poor error reporting on reddits and hackernewses. You can also see that on this very thread - at first, the issue was at all unclear (even though I tried to write a detailed message, packing different sides into it). Now issue becomes clear, but (besides the usual "never heard" response), the thinking is along the lines of "additional info hacks", which was my first motion either. Let's see where that leads us. (And that's why I posted to the mailing list first - chances, a bugs.p.o report would be closed with "discuss first on the mailing list" suggestion). [] -- Best regards, Paul mailto:pmis...@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Python-ideas mailing list -- python-ideas@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-ideas-le...@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-ideas.python.org/ Message archived at https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/OIENWJYHNEUNTU67MLKVRNK4SRPOSIEE/ Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
