On Feb 11, 5:33?am, Steven D'Aprano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 01:08:21 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> An update is in the works for those > >> using more recent releases, > > > That's good news, although the responsible thing > > to do was not relaease version 2.5 until such issues > > are resolved. > > I realize you're a Windows user, and a Windows user with an AOL email > address at that,
Now I know what it felt like to be a Shiite living in Iraq. > so it may come as a shock to learn that the computer > industry doesn't start and finish on Windows. I don't see why the needs of > Windows users like yourself should come ahead of the needs of users on Mac > OS, Linux, Solaris, etc. > > >> but that won't help users who don't have > >> access to Visual Studio. > > > That can be solved by throwing money at the problem. > > But money doesn't help when the solution is on the > > far side of the moon. > > You're mixing metaphors and I don't understand what you mean. > > > > > > >> >> Yes, it's > >> >> occasionally very frustrating to the rest of us, but that's life. > > >> > As the Kurds are well aware. > > >> I really don't think you help your argument by trying to draw parallels > >> between the problems of compiler non-availability and those of a > >> population subject to random genocide. > > > You missed the point of the analogy. > > > The US government suggested to the oppressed tribes > > in Iraq that they should rise up and overthrow > > Saddam Hussein at the end of the first Gulf War. > > And what did the US government do when they rose up? > > Nothing. They were left to twist in the wind. > > Both the southern Iraqis (mostly so-called "marsh Arabs" and Shiites) and > the northern Kurds rose up against Saddam Hussein. After the Kurdish > rebellion failed, the US and UK belatedly provided them with aid, lots of > aid, and kept the northern no-fly zone going until it was no longer > relevant (2003, the second invasion of Iraq). > > It was the southern Iraqis who were left to be slaughtered. Although > technically there was a no-fly zone in the south, it wasn't enforced > when it really counted -- while the rebellion was in full force, the > Iraqi government asked the US for permission to fly into the south. > Permission was given, and the Iraq air force used combat aircraft against > the rebels. Unlike the Kurds, they got no aid, neither money nor military > support. > > The end result was that the southern Iraqs were hung out to dry, while the > Kurds ended up a virtually independent state-within-a-state, with their > own "government", their own army, and US and British aircraft protecting > them. > > >> Try to keep things in perspective, please. > > > See if you can see the similarity. > > > I buy into Python. I spend a lot of effort > > developing a math library based on GMPY to use > > in my research. I discover a bug in GMPY and > > actually go to a lot of effort and solve it. > > Good on you, and I'm not being sarcastic. But do try to keep a bit of > perspective. Whatever your problem, you're not being bombed or shot. > Frankly, the fact that you not only came up with the analogy, but continue > to defend it, suggests an over-active sense of your own entitlement. > > > But _I_ can't even use it because I've been > > left to twist in the wind by the fact that > > Python 2.5 for Windows was built with an > > obsolete compiler that's not even available. > > Luckily, unlike the Kurds, my situation had > > a happy ending, someone else compiled the fixed > > GMPY source and made a 2.5 Windows version > > available. But can anyone say what will happen > > the next time? > > Get yourself a compiler, then you won't be relying on the kindness of > strangers. > > If that's not practical, for whatever reason, then remember: you're > relying on the kindness of strangers. They don't owe you a thing. If > anything, you owe them. > > [snip] > > >> Your efforts would probably be far better spent trying to build a > >> back-end for mingw or some similar system into Python's development > >> system, to allow Python for Windows to be built on a regular rather than > >> a one-off basis using a completely open source tool chain. > > > No, as I said elsewhere, I'm not a software developer, > > I'm an amateur math researcher. My efforts are best spent > > as an actual end user > > If you won't scratch your own itch, don't be surprised if nobody else > cares enough to scratch it for you. > > > to find and report bugs that the > > developers never see. Remember, a programmer, because he > > wrote it, only _thinks_ he knows how the program works. > > Whereas I, the user, _know_ how it works. > > Oh wow. That's the most audacious, self-involved and sheer arrogant claim > I've ever heard, and I've heard a lot of nonsense sprouted by arrogant > know-nothings with delusions of grandeur. For the sake of your > credibility, I hope you can support that claim. > > [snip] > > >> It's much harder than sniping on a newsgroup, > > > That figures. You try and contribute and you get > > accused of being a troll. > > "I have a problem. I demand that somebody fix it for me!" is hardly > contributing. > > If you don't have the technical skills to fix it yourself, have you > considered putting hand in pocket and paying a software developer to do > it? It might even come out cheaper than buying a commercial compiler, and > it would help others. That should appeal to somebody as altruistic as you. > > > > but you earn rather more kudos. > > > Guess what kudos I got for solving the GMPY divm() > > problem? None. How much effort would it have been > > to mention my contribution in the source code > > comments (as was the case for other contributers)? > > Not that I'm bitter, after all, I'm altruistic. > > Naturally. > > > By the way, on the sci.math newsgroup I promote > > Python every chance I get. > > That's mighty big of you. > > > One fellow thanked me > > profusely for recommending Python & GMPY and asked > > for some help with a program he was having problems > > with. We worked it out fine but his problem made me > > suspect there may be more bugs in GMPY. What's my > > motivation for tracking them down? > > Because you want the bugs fixed so you can get on with whatever coding you > want to do. > > Because you're altruistic. > > Because you want people to know how clever you are. > > Are those enough reasons? > > -- > Steven -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list