On May 3, 9:27 am, Paul Boddie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 3 Mai, 15:49, Ben Collver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I rewrote my code in Python and I found myself running into many of the > > same hassles that I run into with other languages: inaccurate and > > incomplete documentation, a maze of little platform-specific quirks to > > work around in the base classes, and a macho community of users. > > I'm sorry to hear about that. If by "macho" you mean people who insist > that things are good enough as they are, and that newcomers should > themselves adapt to whatever they may discover, instead of things > being improved so that they are more intuitive and reliable for > newcomers and experienced developers alike, then I'd certainly be > interested in undermining that culture. > > > The python web site recommended Dive Into Python, so I learned by > > reading that. It has several examples that don't work because the > > Python base classes have changed behavior. I should have taken that as > > lesson. > > Really Dive Into Python should be a sufficient guide, and it was > perhaps the best introduction to the language when it was written. It > is very unfortunate that the language has changed in a number of ways > (and exhibits continued change) whilst effort into documenting what is > already there remains neglected amongst the people making all the > changes. > > > I tried to write portable Python code. The zlib CRC function returned > > different results on architectures between 32 bit and 64 bit > > architectures. I filed a bug report. It was closed, without a comment > > from the person who closed it. I get the unspoken message: bug reports > > are not welcome. > > Can you provide the bug identifier? Bug reports are generally welcome, > and despite complaints about patch reviews, I've found people > reviewing things I've submitted. > > > I installed Cygwin on a Windows machine. I try to quit from an > > interactive Python session. It tells me that on my platform, I must > > press Control-Z to exit. I press Control-Z and it makes Python a > > background process. > > Yes, Ctrl-Z exits Python in the standard Windows edition. Since Cygwin > provides a POSIX-like environment, Ctrl-D should be used instead. If > the documentation is wrong, a bug report or patch should be filed > against the software. > > > I tried to use the XML.minidom. The documentation here is minimal as > > well. So I read up on other web sites. It turns out that the interface > > has changed quite a bit from the documentation I found on other web > > sites. Where are the much loved docstrings? In 2.3 minidom, they are > > sparse and cryptic. > > I really don't know what to say about the PyXML/xmlcore situation. I > don't use ElementTree and hardly use PyXML or minidom, but something > really should have been done about the maintenance of the established > libraries rather than declaring them as legacy items and pretending > that they don't exist. > > > Between 2.4 and 2.5, tempfile returns a different type of object. My > > code cannot have a single test, it has check for type(obj) == file or > > obj.__class__ == tempfile._TemporaryFileWrapper. > > Try using isinstance or relying on "deeper" knowledge of how the > object will be used. > > > I decided to make a tkinter front-end for a Python program. I decided > > to go with tkinter because it is included with many Python > > installations, so it maximizes the chance for my program to run out of > > the box. > > > The tkinter documentation on the Python site mainly consists of loose > > notes and links to other sites. The documentation on other sites is > > great, if you already know how to use tkinter. I ran into bugs in > > TkAqua which make the grid layout unusable for me. So I will need to > > ask potential users to install Xcode, X11, and mac ports, if they want > > to run my program. > > Take a look at the python.org Wiki for links to other resources on > Tkinter: > > http://wiki.python.org/moin/TkInter > > Or consider other graphical frameworks: > > http://wiki.python.org/moin/GuiProgramming > > > In short, there is plenty of room for improvement. Admittedly these are > > not problems with the language definition. But I downloaded a Python > > distribution, and the problems are Python specific. > > My opinions, already expressed, include the observation that the core > development community is more interested in extending the language > than in strengthening the standard library (and its documentation). It > should be noted that the proposed standard library reorganisation, > which is a very conservative affair, has actually been postponed until > after the release of Python 3.0a1 according to a message I read > recently. And yet, if you read people's lists about what they "hate" > about Python (amongst actual users of Python), guess which thing > almost always comes up? > > http://www.google.com/search?q=%22things+I+hate+about+Python%22 > > Paul
I agree with Paul and Ben. The Docs need some help. Some are excellent and others are hosed because of changes to the language. I started with Tkinter, but quickly got frustrated with the lack of documentation or screwy out-dated docs. What really annoys me is that some very good authors state that Tkinter has excellent docs and multiple published books. I found one book by Grayson that is 7 years old. So I switched to wxPython. wxPython has a better user group and better docs. Unfortunately, they also have quite a few man pages, as do other external modules and man pages typically make my eyes swim. The closest thing to real docs by a real person for Python is Lundh's site: http://effbot.org/librarybook/ Fortunately, since Python is so easy, some of this can be overcome. Mike -- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
