Hey, @Marcus: Thanks for the book recommendations! Ironically enough, I'm currently reading *Code Complete*. :-) @Erkan: I have to say that *Stalker* looks fantastic and worth looing into at some point! @Justin / @LIJU: Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts.
Even though that the usage of something like Stalker sounds like the best way to go, I'd like to get some feedback to see the places where I'm going wrong and why. Here are some additional thoughts about the original idea: *Projects* The only reason why I suggested OPP is that in this case, they are indeed 'types' of the same kind of project. The differences between them are pretty small and the rest of the functionality (methods) and data (variables) should remain the same for all projects/types. All what I intend to do is cater for those small exceptions. In addition to that, most of the tools we have are used in all of those 'types of projects'. At the moment they rely on hard coded paths which is a problem because every time a path changes in a project, we need to add an exception within the code and it's not ideal. The current base class for Project looks something like this. Keep in mind that this is only an example, The real class has way more functionality and data. And it does more than returning instance variables. (get files, performs checks, reads data etc): https://gist.github.com/davidmartinezanim/6709ff6af1e60cb71759 After reading your emails, I can see the advantage of using a files to store most of the data for the projects. As you say, that would free the code from any changes and the only thing that would need changing would be text file. I have a couple of questions though: Question 1: @Justin: In your email, you mention the use of 'textual templates'. I'm afraid that I haven't heard that term before. Could you explain what it means? Question 2: In the past, I've been using XML to save some basic preferences files but since I discovered JSON, that's all I use. Which one would you use in this case? XML or JSON? Are there any reasons to pick one or the other? *Different UIs* I'd like to clarify something in regards of the UI. Different departments don't have a different interface for the the loader. The interface is pretty much the same but some departments have additional options (check boxes, buttons, etc). Instead an re-writing the new interface with just a couple of additions, I wanted to use OOP to get the shared structure and only add those elements where needed. (and have all of them share the same interface) Question 3: Is this still a bad idea? *Linking different elements together* Looks like the best thing to do is to create the loader as a separate element and pass the parameters across. Since some departments require more info that others, I suppose that the loader should set some default values and have the ability to apply any changes to the variables through the parameters, right? Thanks again -- David Martinez - Technical Animator Email: [email protected] Website: http://www.elusiveideas.com On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Nils Lerin <[email protected]> wrote: > Oops, just noticed there was a new thread dedicated to stalker > > > On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Nils Lerin <[email protected]> wrote: > >> That's incredible Erkan! I've been planning on developing something very >> similar to stalker for some time now but seeing how stalker seems to do >> exactly what I wanted I might continue from there. You don't happen to have >> a video or screenshot demonstrating the Anima interfaces? >> >> /Nils >> On May 9, 2014 11:39 PM, "Erkan Özgür Yılmaz" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hey Justin, >>> >>> I should start promoting Stalker more, it was my little baby for the >>> last 4-5 years or in a much meaner perspective it was all my brain farts >>> structured and ordered in a way that may be helpful to others, and I think >>> it is time for letting it to fly and start its own journey. >>> >>> E.Ozgur Yilmaz >>> eoyilmaz.blogspot.com >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 12:21 AM, Justin Israel >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> I'm surprised Stalker didn't come up in the other thread about path >>>> structures and parsing (regex/schema/pyparsing/...). Seems pretty relevant! >>>> I also just recognized your name as having been associated with Stalker, >>>> when I came across it a few years back. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 7:46 AM, Marcus Ottosson < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ah! I knew I recognised your name. Good work with Stalker, got it >>>>> recommended to me by a friend of mine a while back. I may just have >>>>> another >>>>> look. :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9 May 2014 19:31, Erkan Özgür Yılmaz <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> You might be interested in: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://pythonhosted.org/stalker/tutorial.html >>>>>> >>>>>> At least it will help you to start from some where. And I should >>>>>> start ptomoting it as it is pretty mature right now. >>>>>> On May 9, 2014 8:15 PM, "Marcus Ottosson" <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Software design is a big topic, is it ok if I refer you to some >>>>>>> books instead of answering them here? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Based on your questions, here is what I'd suggest, in this order: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. Code >>>>>>> Complete<http://www.amazon.com/Code-Complete-Practical-Handbook-Construction/dp/0735619670/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1399654675&sr=1-1&keywords=code+complete> >>>>>>> 2. Domain-driven >>>>>>> design<http://www.amazon.com/Domain-Driven-Design-Tackling-Complexity-Software/dp/0321125215/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1399654632&sr=1-1&keywords=domain-driven+design+tackling+complexity+in+the+heart+of+software> >>>>>>> 3. API Design >>>>>>> C++<http://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Design-C-Martin-Reddy/dp/0123850037> >>>>>>> 4. Game Engine >>>>>>> Architecture<http://www.amazon.co.uk/Game-Engine-Architecture-Jason-Gregory/dp/1568814135/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1389698296&sr=1-1&keywords=game+engine+architecture> >>>>>>> 5. Physically Based >>>>>>> Rendering<http://www.amazon.co.uk/Physically-Based-Rendering-Theory-Implementation/dp/0123750792> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Code Complete* >>>>>>> Give this book a quick glance (its rather large), it should prepare >>>>>>> you for what lies ahead. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Domain-driven design* >>>>>>> Consider adopting this thinking to your object models. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *API Design for C++* >>>>>>> Not specifically for Python, but provides some very good >>>>>>> methodologies on dividing interface from implementation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Game Engine Architecture* >>>>>>> To wet your appetite, this one might open your eyes as to how *big* >>>>>>> a piece of software can get. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Physically Based Rendering* >>>>>>> Whereas this one might open your eyes as to how a *complex* piece of >>>>>>> software can look. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9 May 2014 11:36, Justin Israel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hey David.... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 8:24 PM, David Martinez < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm working on a new script and I'm looking for some advice in >>>>>>>>> relation to *Software Design*. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The tool that I'm working on allows to import files into the >>>>>>>>> current scene and make changes to the hierarchy. The tool is going to >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> used by a few different departments and the way files are imported >>>>>>>>> depends >>>>>>>>> both on the department using the tool and the options selected from >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> interface. Here is a list of the things that I want to accomplish: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Here are some things to keep in mind* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Creating classes for Project* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Different projects might have different folder structures and the >>>>>>>>> data is not necessarily in the same place for each different project. >>>>>>>>> Because of that, I thought that the best thing to do would be to >>>>>>>>> create a >>>>>>>>> base class in which I define the basic functionality and then. for >>>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>>> projects that have a different structure, I can subclass from the base >>>>>>>>> class and overwrite the methods that need to be tweaked. By doing so, >>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>> won't be duplicating code but just only changing the one that I need >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> change. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Question 1: >>>>>>>>> Does that sound like the best way to go? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It may not be the best approach to try and describe each new >>>>>>>> project in terms of a subclass. Unless I misunderstood you and your >>>>>>>> subclasses are just "variations" of a "type" of project. What might be >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> flexbile is to create a concrete project class that has a common >>>>>>>> interface, >>>>>>>> but can derive its locations and properties from a template. Something >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> allows you to whip up a new version of a textual template when there >>>>>>>> is a >>>>>>>> new project, and nothing in your codebase has to be changed. This >>>>>>>> template >>>>>>>> might indicate where logs go, or where image outputs go, or maya >>>>>>>> scenes, >>>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>> But it sounds like the right idea in terms of your base class, to >>>>>>>> have a consistent interface being provided. That base class might end >>>>>>>> up >>>>>>>> just being the concrete class. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Isolate Functionality * >>>>>>>>> I understand that the best thing to do is isolate functionality >>>>>>>>> and avoid having functions/methods that try and tackle with a bunch of >>>>>>>>> unrelated stuff. Having said that, I'm not sure when to stop breaking >>>>>>>>> things down and I often end up with functions/methods that have simple >>>>>>>>> calls to built-in or third party libraries. When that happens, it is >>>>>>>>> crear >>>>>>>>> to me that I've gone too far. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Question 2: >>>>>>>>> How do you decide what needs to be broken down and what doesn't? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I read a book on refactoring once (I don't remember the name, >>>>>>>> sorry. I am also a film major, so I have only ready *one* book on >>>>>>>> refactoring). >>>>>>>> It mentioned something about refactoring after you begin to repeat >>>>>>>> yourself 3 or more times. There is generally a basic concept you want >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> follow of separating concerns, and having a class serve one and only >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> purpose. But that doesn't mean you always have to worry so much about >>>>>>>> how >>>>>>>> much to separate upfront. That is the point of refactoring. When a >>>>>>>> single >>>>>>>> class or function starts looking like it is doing more than its >>>>>>>> targeted >>>>>>>> purpose... you can split it up. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Allow different UIs* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I want to be able to control the same functionality using >>>>>>>>> different UIs (only one would be running at the same time). Because of >>>>>>>>> that, it is clear to me that none of the core functionality should be >>>>>>>>> part >>>>>>>>> of the interface but isolated (see previous point) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This would allow me to have different versions of the UI and or >>>>>>>>> different ways to display the data. This could also be used to load >>>>>>>>> one or >>>>>>>>> the other based on the existence of some libraries on the system. >>>>>>>>> Ideally, >>>>>>>>> I would like to be able to switch between different UIs at runtime. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Again, it looks to me like OOP might be helpful here. The way I >>>>>>>>> see it, I could create a base class that communicates with the main >>>>>>>>> script >>>>>>>>> and then a series of subclasses that, not only display a different >>>>>>>>> interface but overwrite the functionality of those methods when >>>>>>>>> necessary. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Question 3: >>>>>>>>> Do you think the use of classes is justified here? Would do rather >>>>>>>>> use another approach? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> OOP does not always == best. It is just a design concept. OOP >>>>>>>> aside, you definitely have the right idea that it is beneficial to >>>>>>>> separate >>>>>>>> your business logic from your display logic. One library should solely >>>>>>>> focus on providing that layer of representing your core concepts like >>>>>>>> loading, parsing, opening, saving,... Then you can have any number of >>>>>>>> views >>>>>>>> that wrap around this logic. This means you can also have command line >>>>>>>> tools that build on the same core library. When you want to then >>>>>>>> change the >>>>>>>> way something is loaded, you only have one place to change it. Your >>>>>>>> display >>>>>>>> code shouldn't care at all how the business logic works. It should only >>>>>>>> worry about how to communicate between the business logic and the user >>>>>>>> inputs, and how to display the available controls and data. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Linking different elements together* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have to admit that I'm having trouble on seeing how to link the >>>>>>>>> different elements together. At the moment I have different classes >>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>> UI, the project and also for the importer itself (given the fact that >>>>>>>>> depending on the department, the import process should be different). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At the moment, I have the UI create an instance of the importer >>>>>>>>> class, since it the department is defined in the interface and the >>>>>>>>> importer >>>>>>>>> will relate on some of the instance attributes of the UI. Having said >>>>>>>>> that, >>>>>>>>> I have the feeling that the instance of the importer should be created >>>>>>>>> somewhere else and only change when the department is changed instead >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the UI itself. If that's the case, I'm not sure how I would >>>>>>>>> communicate >>>>>>>>> with the instance variables of the UI. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Question 4: >>>>>>>>> What do you think it would be the best way to structure the code >>>>>>>>> in this case? If I create an instance of the importer outside of the >>>>>>>>> UI, >>>>>>>>> should I pass the instance of the UI as an attribute in order to >>>>>>>>> access its class attributes? I want to make sure I'm structuring the >>>>>>>>> code >>>>>>>>> in a way that makes sense. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would think the importer should have no knowledge of UI concepts. >>>>>>>> It might help (and this might sound related to the previous question) >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>> you think of them in completely different pieces. How can the importer >>>>>>>> stand alone? How can it function without your UI, given only >>>>>>>> parameters. >>>>>>>> Also, it may be beneficial to avoid defining department stuff in code >>>>>>>> unless it is a modular type system and not something part of the core. >>>>>>>> That >>>>>>>> way you don't have to update core logic when department details change >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> you need to create the concept of a new department. This may go back to >>>>>>>> templates or configuration files that are loaded into an interface. >>>>>>>> Forgive >>>>>>>> me though if my answer sounds vague. It is possible you could need to >>>>>>>> create a few interfaces which you are referring to as departments. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure how to fully answer this one, but ultimately I know it >>>>>>>> involves thinking about them as completely separate pieces. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot in advance, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hope this helps a little bit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAMLeNpz%2BWStu%2B8yp6s2LWaY1JtJJ4_fjrU1agGruUFY18xv_Zw%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAMLeNpz%2BWStu%2B8yp6s2LWaY1JtJJ4_fjrU1agGruUFY18xv_Zw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAPGFgA34h7C7h7ccOTgt0bB04Mad7wTEAPyzGBxp_gNqF0X%2Baw%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAPGFgA34h7C7h7ccOTgt0bB04Mad7wTEAPyzGBxp_gNqF0X%2Baw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Marcus Ottosson* >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAFRtmOBxKr5Wfiqg8iMWNHESEgg7KVu7e2BWnqz%3DjQbTz%2BcCrQ%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAFRtmOBxKr5Wfiqg8iMWNHESEgg7KVu7e2BWnqz%3DjQbTz%2BcCrQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAGNmyx7kLeZr%2B0M%3Dgv%2BoQ6%2BbSb%2BEmfynOQxJPcEvH2Zahe29MA%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAGNmyx7kLeZr%2B0M%3Dgv%2BoQ6%2BbSb%2BEmfynOQxJPcEvH2Zahe29MA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *Marcus Ottosson* >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAFRtmOD8AqQjExcJrwdnnysnPh5w6_AXLTyybWztF0Hx%2BRRPQg%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAFRtmOD8AqQjExcJrwdnnysnPh5w6_AXLTyybWztF0Hx%2BRRPQg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAPGFgA0BqEUdhT81%2BRSguRQ6WEnkFmYZdb%2BW%3Dr6%3D8s7sF5vbxQ%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAPGFgA0BqEUdhT81%2BRSguRQ6WEnkFmYZdb%2BW%3Dr6%3D8s7sF5vbxQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAGNmyx7twouZ%2BU33NXXnKvoosjrUPrHHfE8X%2BNXDVWSOfo8Nrg%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAGNmyx7twouZ%2BU33NXXnKvoosjrUPrHHfE8X%2BNXDVWSOfo8Nrg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> > st > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAGkBUFfj1sKc%3DEKVYUJeGVwc0m3ex9ATrJRor5mhtg3v3KEezw%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAGkBUFfj1sKc%3DEKVYUJeGVwc0m3ex9ATrJRor5mhtg3v3KEezw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > For more options, visit 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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAMLeNpxSm_ztAgBBS6rLKyJ%3DLj9jNWiN17cVhnK7q5WPhreYMA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
