I think that using pip with python 3 is not as incovinient as it was with python 2, where you may had to look for built wheels sometimes, because 2 had been legacy for years, so maybe now more people use it, I guess you need to be aware of things like walrus op, which I love, but its not available until 3.8, so Maya 2022 doesn't have it. I have always used the maya modules, so in a way I appreciate not having PyMEL bundled, as I don't use it, but I can imagine that libs that depend on PyMEL will explain how to run pip and install it.
On Mon, 17 Apr 2023, 10:56 Justin Israel, <justinisr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, 17 Apr 2023, 8:11 pm Marcus Ottosson, <konstrukt...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I know that pip installing is a bit less convenient >> >> Just adding my two cents to this on how it is not just a bit less >> convenient, but a complete killer in some cases; the cases that are most >> important from my perspective. Namely, external tools development. Take >> mGear for example. A general purpose auto rigging solution built on PyMEL. >> Their potential userbase went from all Maya users to the few who are >> capable of using pip. From riggers to riggers with scripting and >> pipeline experience. A tiny fraction of what it used to be. As a result, >> they will likely need to move away from PyMEL to regain their audience. And >> in my case, had I built Ragdoll Dynamics on PyMEL, I would not only had >> lost userbase, but the vast majority of revenue for my business. My >> audience isn’t even riggers, but animators. An audience that is not >> expected to know anything about pip or even Python. And certainly would >> not be able to do pull-through caching on Nexus or Artifactory. >> > > I don't know. This sounds quite over-dramatic to me. We are talking about > the requirement of a single command to install PyMEL, documented by > Autodesk, using mayapy and a bundled pip module. Is it a stretch to expect > a user to run the command? Is it considered a significantly more complex > step than the instructions a given plugin will list to copy/install the > plugin in the first place? It just seems far fetched to suggest the new > requirement will lose the majority of the user base because it is too > technical. It could be one more step added to the install instructions of > the plugin. > But maybe there are other complications, such as breaking changes between > PyMEL releases and 2 different plugins having different requirements on old > and new behavior and really only one can be installed in Maya. That seems > like more of a potential problem than the installation step issue. You > mentioned vendoring support for PyMEL into plugin projects. > > I have great respect and appreciation for PyMEL; it’s how I personally >> went from learning Python with maya.cmds to object-oriented thinking and >> API design. But it’s now in the tough position of drawing a crowd of Python >> beginners who is now also expected to know the down and dirty of Python and >> package management. Not to mention that their audience will now have an >> unpredictable version of PyMEL installed their users system, and having to >> account for the differences in their own tools. >> >> A possible solution that I’d recommend is making PyMEL vendorable. >> Something tools developers can embed into their project such that (1) the >> end-user won’t need to install anything and (2) the version developed >> against remain consistent with the tool. For a project like PyMEL, I’d >> imagine this to be a tall order. But unless something is done, pip >> installing isn’t merely less convenient, but a PyMEL killer, IMO. >> >> On Fri, 7 Apr 2023 at 16:22, Chad Dombrova <chad...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> PyMEL 1.3.0 has been released to PyPI. Those of you paying attention to >>> recent releases of Maya may have noticed that PyMEL is no longer >>> distributed with Maya. The new approach is to use pip to install PyMEL >>> from PyPI, and you can find instructions on how to do this on the PyMEL >>> PyPI page <https://pypi.org/project/pymel/> (as well as github). >>> >>> I know that pip installing is a bit less convenient, but on the bright >>> side distributing via PyPI will give us the ability to make patch releases >>> as needed. If access to PyPI is not available in your working environment >>> due to restricted internet, I highly recommend getting your IT team to set >>> up an internal mirror that can do pull-through caching, like Nexus >>> <https://www.sonatype.com/products/nexus-repository> or Artifactory >>> <https://jfrog.com/artifactory-book-demo/>, both of which have free >>> versions. >>> >>> On to the release. There are two big improvements in 1.3.0: >>> >>> 1. support for Maya 2023 and fixes for 2022 in python3 mode >>> 2. very accurate stubs for code completion and static analysis, >>> distributed as PEP 561 <https://peps.python.org/pep-0561/>-compliant >>> pyi files. >>> >>> The second feature means if you use an editor that understands pyi >>> stubs, like PyCharm and VS Code with Pylance >>> <https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-python.vscode-pylance>, >>> you should begin to see immediate improvements just by pip installing pymel >>> into a virtual env that your editor knows about. >>> >>> *I wrote a blog post about the stubs* if you’re interested: >>> https://dev.to/chadrik/pymels-new-type-stubs-2die >>> >>> The new stubs include arguments and their types for nearly all functions >>> in pymel, as well as many return types and even many return types that >>> are conditional based on input arguments. >>> >>> I know that this release has been a long time coming. Finding the time >>> to put together this announcement added some delays (I’m currently writing >>> this while on vacation), so I apologize to those of you who have been >>> waiting. And yes, we’ll get started on Maya 2024 soon. >>> >>> -chad >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to python_inside_maya+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAGq9Q7FaPt%3DYr1uwTAr3z1LR_So%3DY86jTmww9yyQ_8%3DhqBfYXg%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAGq9Q7FaPt%3DYr1uwTAr3z1LR_So%3DY86jTmww9yyQ_8%3DhqBfYXg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to python_inside_maya+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAFRtmOBeMLbU3qk6v%2Bd8iQYstkjYaBwwGN4Xb_HpZ1Vz%3DiEeEQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAFRtmOBeMLbU3qk6v%2Bd8iQYstkjYaBwwGN4Xb_HpZ1Vz%3DiEeEQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to python_inside_maya+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAPGFgA3JUhnQWS%2B5qoZbe%3DMh1gMj%3D9LsnA4OyZ6RZod-BU6RAw%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/python_inside_maya/CAPGFgA3JUhnQWS%2B5qoZbe%3DMh1gMj%3D9LsnA4OyZ6RZod-BU6RAw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Python Programming for Autodesk Maya" group. 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