On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 6:45 AM Paolo Cavallini <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi all. > I'm often unhappy when I'm right. Although the practical impact this time > is low, I would take this as a clear signal (after the loomio move, and I > expect more) that we have to change our strategy, keeping our > infrastructure as simple as possible and avoiding wherever possible to rely > on proprietary, non free, stuff. > Cheers. > For what it's worth I totally agree with you Paolo. > > On 1 August 2019 11:32:14 CEST, Andreas Neumann <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> Hi Ian, >> Am 01.08.19 um 11:21 schrieb Ian Turton: >> >> I would suspect that switching to gitlab would not be sufficient as it is >> still with in the USA and would be subject to the same restrictions. Also >> if self-hosting we will need to make sure it outside the USA. >> >> Yes - our self-hosted infrastructure is in Germany. >> >> We are aware that gitlab is also hosted in the US. >> >> However, a self-hosted version of gitlab in our current infrastructure >> adds a significant additional burden. That's why we need to discuss it >> first, reach consensus and allocate resources for maintenance. >> >> As to China: this is kind of a "black hole" for us. China (and probably >> also North Korea) are some of the very few countries where we have almost >> no feedback on usage, have almost no income of donations and sponsorships, >> etc. My assumption is that in China they just pirate ESRI software, or they >> have some alternative GIS they programmed themselves. >> >> Andreas >> >> >> There is also a suggestion that China could be added to the list of >> "banned" countries too. >> https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-life/chinese-developers-fear-losing-open-source-tech-trade-war/article/3011463 >> While >> this article suggests that no open source code is affected >> https://www.abacusnews.com/digital-life/github-says-chinese-developers-are-safe-export-restrictions/article/3012452 >> >> Ian >> >> On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 at 09:35, Andreas Neumann <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Thanks for bringing up this discussion. >>> >>> My personal opinion is that we should be worried by such development and >>> should have a plan B for hosting our code. >>> >>> We certainly want QGIS and its source code to be available world wide, >>> not just to parts of the world at the mercy of some governments and >>> corporations. >>> >>> But the decision to move away from github should be discussed and voted >>> on by the core devs and voting members because apparently it has a lot >>> of implications and a lot of work went into the CI integration >>> (according to some devs). >>> >>> We already have 10k € in the 2019 budget for github to gitlab (hosted or >>> self hosted?) migration. This money would already be available this >>> year, but first we need to have a plan and the support of the developer >>> community to do this step. If this isn't enough, we can have additional >>> budget in 2020. >>> >>> Greetings, >>> >>> Andreas >>> >>> >>> Am 01.08.19 um 09:37 schrieb Vincent Picavet (ml): >>> > Hi Nyall, all, >>> > >>> > On 01/08/2019 06:26, Nyall Dawson wrote: >>> >> Well, I've got to say upfront that we WERE warned about the dangers of >>> >> this happening by members of our community, and now the worst IS >>> >> happening and Github has started blocking access to projects from >>> >> certain regions. >>> >> >>> >> See https://www.linuxinsider.com/story/86154.html, but long story >>> >> short, GitHub is now blocking users in Crimea, Cuba, Iran, North Korea >>> >> and Syria from accessing its services to comply with U.S. trade >>> >> control laws. I'm unsure if we're directly affected yet by this, but >>> >> the wording on Github's notice is very vague: " GitHub MAY allow users >>> >> in or ordinarily resident in countries and territories subject to U.S. >>> >> sanctions to access CERTAIN free GitHub.com services for PERSONAL >>> >> COMMUNICATIONS " (emphasis added by me). >>> >> >>> >> What can/should we do in response to this? >>> > While the impact of this decision is still very minor for us right now, >>> > as you say it is a very good illustration on how putting us in a vendor >>> > lock-in situation is bad. >>> > >>> > I would say that it is not too late to re-work on a self-hosted GitLab >>> > instance, which would be more future-proof. That would need a great >>> deal >>> > of efforts though, and would require specific funding for the >>> > forthcoming non-funny tasks. >>> > >>> > At Oslandia, we would be willing to help, if it is the path chosen by >>> > the community. >>> > >>> > A Git mirror would be great of course, but does not solve the full >>> problem. >>> > >>> > And personally, this kind of attack against free information and >>> > knowledge is a concern, for sure. >>> > >>> > Best regards, >>> > Vincent >>> > >>> >> Note that it ALSO applies to gitlab.com, who are also subject to the >>> >> same trade laws, so moving to gitlab ISN'T a possible solution (unless >>> >> we self-host). >>> >> >>> >> I think at the least we could/should endorse an official, read-only >>> >> repo mirror which isn't affected by the trade laws, e.g. >>> >> https://git.osgeo.org/gitea/qgis/QGIS would be a great candidate >>> >> (unless osgeo is also affected by the same ruling, which they could >>> >> easily be, given that they are US based too) . An official mirror >>> >> would at least ensure that users in these regions can access the >>> >> existing source. >>> >> >>> >> Does this development concern anyone else? >>> >> >>> >> Nyall >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> QGIS-Developer mailing list >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer >>> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer >>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > QGIS-Developer mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer >>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer >>> _______________________________________________ >>> QGIS-Developer mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer >> >> >> >> -- >> Ian Turton >> >> > -- > Sorry for being short > _______________________________________________ > QGIS-Developer mailing list > [email protected] > List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer -- Alessandro Pasotti w3: www.itopen.it
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