2009/11/12 Niclas Hedhman <[email protected]> > > First of all, isn't #1 & #2 delicately interlinked? > I would even say strongly interlinked. It looks like doing OO in C, it is possible but one needs to stretch the language a lot and sometimes do magic tricks.
> Well, I agree on both points, but I'm kind of certain that there is no real > way out of it. > I would see step by step way to Qi4j something like that: 1. More theory - what is it all about. One can find some pieces here and there but it is time consuming and it is not clear what is still current. At least you could put in one place links to some threads from the list (like one on what is object - explain a lot, or one on entity patterns) and other useful staff in the net (posts from Rickards' blog). 2. Look, you can do some valuable staff without the whole Qi4j infrastructure (or some minimal subset of it), like traits. 3. Now you can model one domain with Qi4j and integrate is with the rest of the application, so an examples/tools/extensions how to integrate with Qi4j app as library, services or anything else would be helpful. 4. You are ready to take fully advantage of Qi4j Maybe it would be good to separate COP and DDD concepts/infrastructure they are two separate concerns that interfere a lot in studying Qi4j. I think it would be easier to get first COP only, especially for people who do not know DDD. > Let's formulate it like this; This Hibernate framework is pretty cool way > to do it, but can yoiu fix so that all these pesky Sessions that is all over > the place is not in my code? And while you are at it, I don't like that I > have to detach/attach objects, and yeah the equals seems all buggered up? > > Some so called frameworks claim to be non-intrusive, but I have not seen > any actual application being de-Springified (remove Spring and make it work > without Spring), so I don't buy the argument. > The counter-argument (for Spring) is that you can use it to a very small > extent, making the rollback easier/smoother. To that I say, Qi4j is very > similar to that respect, it is possible to for instance only use "objects" > (I.e. ObjectBuilder) and have a handicapped Qi4j doing some rudimentary > injections. > > So, could it be that Spring's (and Hibernate) success is less of > "non-intrusive" and more like that of a drug dealer (first one is free), > where the ease-of-getting-addicted has a strong focus from those > communities, and that we should learn from it. > Right, If you use any technology a lot, backing out is usually a problem. Even migrating between to versions of the same all-standard-based-J2EE-server like JBoss is a big headache. But they give you at least a mirage of not lock-in, so one can sleep well, until... > HowTo; Getting Addicted to Qi4j and never want to turn back. > (Some editor feedback of better title requested.) > > Interesting thoughts! > > As for "Diet Qi4j"; Rickard and I discussed that option about 2 years ago, > before/at we introduced the Layers/Modules application structure. The > conclusion was that the effort would be too immense and with too low > benefit. Now, when we know so much more, I think that was a wise move... > -- Niclas > > On 12 Nov 2009 18:59, "Jacek Sokulski" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, > After playing with Qi4j for some time I have two remarks pertaining the > adoption of Qi4j: > 1. It requires change of mind set while designing/programming, it can take > some time, but I think it is a change in a good direction, so probable it is > not so big issue > 2. Qi4j seems to be a very strongly lock-in solution and this IS a big > issue. If I use a library or framework I can usually encapsulate it, but > Qi4j goes very deeply into application logic, it is more like using a new > language. > > Any thoughts on this? A way of gradual adoption, maybe some Qi4j-light. A > way/tool to back out? > > Jacek > > _______________________________________________ > qi4j-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ops4j.org/mailman/listinfo/qi4j-dev > > > _______________________________________________ > qi4j-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ops4j.org/mailman/listinfo/qi4j-dev > >
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