Eric & Tony:
Just to be clear, I /*have */successfully ported QMT and other server
apps (including a rather robust Samba 4 as AD server) onto CentOS 7 --
and it seems to do just fine as a stand-alone server....
_*BUT *_- I don't like running a single monolith server that provides
all of these services. Instead, I like to create KVM guests that run
simple sets of apps:
- A Samba 4 AD controller for auth, DNS (BIND), and DHCP (ISC)
- A QMT server for email
- A QMT SmartHost (no REAL users, just available as a private relay)
- A PDNS server (PowerDNS is my preferred backend for public domains
-- BIND does the front-end work tho)
- An Apache server for website (easy to integrate with QMT
SquirrelMail or RoundCube)
- A backup server (for my phone systems)
- Another backup server for my several Linux systems around the world
(the ones NOT here in FLA)
One of the HUGE benefits of this setup is that I can change the IP
address on the QMT Relay in case it gets blacklisted. Then, work to
DELIST the afflicted IP while I'm positive there is no traffic on it! :)
As a result of my difficulties in the networking, KVM, and VNC aspects
of COS7, I have kept ALL of my other KVM hosts as COS6 -- and am hoping
something better comes along for COS8 (or something similar).
Dan
PS: Personally, for now I would continue to support QMT on COS6 ONLY
(only choice being 64 or 32 bit) -- FWIW, some of my KVM client systems
are 32-bit to help reduce their footprint.
On 3/11/2016 1:08 PM, Eric wrote:
Dan,
I have two CentOS 7 servers up and running in production environments
and have never seen the issues that you have described. By no means am
I diminishing what you're saying, though. What you're describing with
VNC happened regularly on my CentOS 5 servers. I had 6 file servers
and 2 email servers with CentOS 5 and I regularly had to go through
the whole ssh(ing) into the machine to fix VNC. Never has this
happened on CentOS 6 or 7, with me anyway.
After hearing from Tony I was giving some thought to compiling
binaries for a SysV distribution like the Debian flavor he suggested.
I have to admit that I wasn't aware of the fight over systemd and
SysV. I've read the links that Tony provided and these two:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2841873/meet-systemd-the-controversial-project-taking-over-a-linux-distro-near-you.html
http://blog.jorgenschaefer.de/2014/07/why-systemd.html
and plan to read Debian's reasoning here:
https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd
How many people in QMT land are running CentOS7-QMT hosts with success?
Maybe a SysV fork is in order.
EricB
On 3/11/2016 10:29 AM, Dan McAllister wrote:
OK, so I have my own 2-cents worth and experience with systemd...
In a nutshell, I do NOT like it. I have found CentOS 7 to have
stability issues that are TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE for a SERVER. (might
be fine for a desktop, but NOT a server!)
And therein lies the rub -- systemd is designed from the get-go to
improve the "Desktop Experience" for Linux. Start faster, provide
feedback faster, do more crap automated, and automatically "filter"
logs and messages.
All GREAT things for the NOOB running Linux for the first time on a
desktop so they can run some app...
But most of the RATIONALE for systemd is an anathema to running a
server!
In my own world, I have a CentOS 7 system running next to a CentOS 6
system. The COS7 system routinely breaks its network configs
requiring me to re-run the firewall startup (otherwise, my virtual
machines networking breaks at LEAST once a week!
On top of that, I usually leave a "console" (not :0) running with a
firewalled (e.g.: limited access by IP address) VNC connection -- and
this too BORKS at least once a week (when this fails, I have to ssh
into the box, stop the vncserver, remove the .X11 folder in /tmp, and
restart vnc. Not a HUGE chore, but given that I leave that very
specific interface up so that I can access VMs VERY QUICKLY in an
emergency, it sucks that often I have to do just that when something
is going on -- and the delay is frustrating.
So what have I done about it?
Personally, I'm sticking with CentOS 6 for servers. Period. I've
tried and tried with COS7, and it just isn't right for a server.
I have to think there will wind up being some "splits" in some
distributions -- separating out server & desktop versions.
Just my thoughts... me, the guy who had QMT running on COS6 for more
than a YEAR before we (the QMT team) officially supported it... yeah,
that guy... is DONE with COS7!
We'll have to wait and see what the next rollouts are like from the
distros -- but for now, COS7 is NOT VIABLE as a server in my opinion.
Dan McAllister
QMT DNS & Mirror Admin (kinda toothless right now, as Eric Schubert
has been totally MIA and silent for soooo long now!)
On 3/11/2016 1:16 AM, Tony White wrote:
Eric,
No problems as I will not use it.
It seems CentOS6 does not have systemd.
I dislike the idea of aggregating everything into
1 process.
We have a VM of CentOS6.7 now and are working
on migrating everything this weekend.
CentOS6 is supported until 2020 I believe so this might
see me out of computing and in my grave. If not then it
at least buys me time to learn a different os that does
not have Systemd.
best wishes
Tony White
On 11/03/2016 16:41, Eric wrote:
Tony,
Have you had any problems with systemd?
EricB
On 3/10/2016 8:36 PM, Tony White wrote:
Hi,
Just because "everyone is going that way" does not make it right.
I can quote "If it ain't broke don't fix it!".
There are many distros not migrating to systemd and those that are
seem to me to have a core user group that are spawning or forking a
separate distro that does not use systemd.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-linuxs-systemd/
http://blog.lusis.org/blog/2014/09/23/end-of-linux/
This may give you some insight. It is a good place to start making
your
mind up on the pros and cons of systems.
I chose Debian (Devuan) as there is a site
http://qmailrocks.thibs.com where
there are instructions on Debian. Essentially this is an up to
date version of
the old QmailRocks site that died a slow and painful death.
I am happy to converse with anyone but maybe we should do it off
list as
it is potentially not constructive for QMTers.
I will have a VM up and running over the weekend for testing.
NB I am not intending to start a big heated discussion I simply
wanted to
know if anyone had already changed.
best wishes
Tony White
On 11/03/2016 13:58, Helmut Fritz wrote:
Yeah - I too dislike the new system stuff. but everything is
going that way it seems. You could Gentoo and build it how you
like, but that is its own set of issues.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony White [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 6:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [qmailtoaster] Centos or Debian?
systemd, kthread and all the other rubbish you dont need on a
server.
However just found out that Debian as systemd now as well.
So the point is moot.
best wishes
Tony White
On 11/03/2016 13:14, Eric wrote:
Why are you sick of CentOS?
On 3/10/2016 6:57 PM, Tony White wrote:
Hi folks,
I am sick of CentOS and was hoping someone had been using
QMT on
Debian.
If anyone has done this I would love to hear your experiences.
TIA.
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