Wouldn't you find useful or needed to be able to link a friend directly to some important or crucial informations by a simple unique url ?
Not being able to just because you make use of an Ajax toolkit ?
It's easy to take only the back subject argument and gives the reasons why it should make no sense, you did it well and i share your opinion, that is not a reason to my mind to ignore all the others needs.
Even by being agree with most of your argumentation, i don't thing making some comparisons with windows or X or Y will resolve things. We could turn around many things like "Give me a W3C specification line that explain a unique url should not give the wanted information", all these kind of thing are not constructive. Neither is taking shortcuts for imposing a unique way to achieve a unique goal. For example, i agree we could have many AJAX requests and responses but it's not true it's the only way to manage things. We could talk of a messaging bus on the client side or messaging protocol which is advocated by many others out there instead of the actual Ajax logic. Where you can have many operations with Ajax, you could encapsulate all these operations in one step with another conception. So if Ajax or X or Y or Z is not adapted to answer a need, why use them if others solutions exist and could fit into the proposed situation.
So the problem is not here for me, if you don't agree with a proposed goal, you don't share it, you don't do it, that's perfect, the situation is clear and i have nothing to say but i propose you tell it clearly, something like : "i don't like your proposition as it does not correspond to my needs and it's no use in my context or my objectives" but please don't look for the easy to find reasons that are supposed to contradict a proposition.
Cordialement / Best Regards
Alexandre Emeriau
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 15/11/2006 20:16:08:
> On point #1 I absolutely do not agree that qooxdoo needs to keep any
> state information. The 'Back Button' is a fine metaphor when used on
> a web page because it refers to the previous request. So clicking
> the button would update your page to the previous request. In a one
> request/one response web page world, this works fine (most of the
> time, even in a web page world there are many times it just doesn't
> work right). In a web application world where a single click of a
> button can generate many AJAX requests and responses and there may
> also be automated requests occurring as well, where does the back
> button take you? To the last AJAX request made? If so, you might
> only be reverting one of many requests. And as mentioned by Alex D,
> name me one Windows Application that offers a back button. Some
> offer an undo, but this is not a Windows Application standard. If a
> developer of a web application wants to offer an undo, it's up to
> the developer to keep track of what needs to be undone, not the
> application framework. If it were up to the framework, it would
> never work 100% of the time. Any amount of undo or 'Back' is going
> to require backing out changes to databases or other things that are
> NOT in control of the framework. It simply won't work. And whoever
> came up with it as a needed requirement for AJAX simply did not
> think it out fully.
>
> Jim
> On 11/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> To point 6 : Obviously my mistake, you're absolutly right that is no
> need for that. I were thinking of this capability regarding another
> context that may come in Qooxdoo : push capabilities and so being
> able to target elements from the server. Anyway and so i didn't
> express well or completly and it's too soon to talk about (if push
> capability ever come into Qooxdoo)
>
> To point 8 : i don't see this in the wishlist, if i'm really waked
> up :), it may be useful to add it on the page for information
>
> To point 1 : Well, if the question is for me personnally, of course
> not, now if the question is for users of the developed applications
> with a gui toolkit, answers may differ a lot depending of the
> "target nature" of the users . In many cases, users use computer as
> naturally as they would be familiar to go on the moon so when
> everyone teach them how to use a navigator or what a web navigation
> context experience is, that implies many things on the way we build
> things inside this context. We could talk a lot through exchanged
> mails but it may waste all our time and energy, especially when i
> mostly share with you the idea of Qooxdo to build an application so
> it wasn't easy to submit you this idea when there is 80% chance you
> obtain an answer like the one you gave. Anyway, even in the context
> of builded online applications, it does not always fit well. It
> could be fine for building different kind of applications, even a
> webos for example, but others context are less adapted, like an
> encyclopedia or a helpdesk support system and so on that are not the
> most confortable situations. Whatever, some of these situations
> should be resolved by a state management also valid in a distributed
> context, that would be wonderful in Qooxdoo
>
> Cordialement / Best Regards
>
> Alexandre Emeriau
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -::--::--::--::--::--::--::--::--::--::--::--::--::--::-
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 15/11/2006 13:00:42:
>
>
> > To point 1:
> > I don't see why would you need to have back-button or history. The
> > principles of a qooxdoo application are other than we know them from the
> > web1.0 pages. Qooxdoo tries to build a app with windows look&feel, and
> > you don't have back-button or history in windows, do you?
> > To point 6:
> > You don't need XPath to target any elements in the page with qooxdoo
> > though all widgets are objects and your page is class with it's methods
> > and attributes(elements in the page), so you can access them like you
> > know this from OOP.
> > To point 8:
> > Observers are really cool feature. XUL for example has it, and it's
> > really helpful in many situations. But if I remember correctly they are
> > already on the wishlist.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > alex.d
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > What do you think of the "8 Ajax evaluation criteria" article
> > > http://www.frontforge.com/#art1002 ?
> > > As i think Qooxdo brings some good capabilities (eventually to be
> > > inproved) to the points 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7 mentionned in this article, i
> > > think points 1, 6 and 8 are more than simple interesting, so good
> > > suggestions to Qooxdo improvements to my mind. What are your opinions on
> > > these subjects, eventual intentions to take them into account ?
> > >
> > > Alex
> > >
> > >
> >
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