You are contradicting yourself. You state that AOT windows are always on
top, yet you state that a modal window, like a File Dialog would be on top
when it was created so it can't be created behind an AOT window. You can't
have it both ways. A window can't always be on top, except when it doesn't
have focus. Modal windows have to be the highest Z-order window other wise
you get a lock scenario. Go back and look at my Z-Index chart, the AOT
windows float above all windows except when a modal window is created, in
that case the modal window has to have the highest Z-Index. Right now, when
the current window handler sees a window get focus, it changes the Z-Index
to be the highest of all the windows so that you can see it. In my scenario,
that Z-Index would never be higher then AOT windows thus allowing the AOT
windows to always be seen. The exception to this is modal windows. When a
modal window gets created and focused, the Z-Index has to be higher then the
AOT windows. Just like if one modal window opens another modal window, the
new one has to have a higher Z-Index then the first one. It's the same thing
between AOT windows and Modal windows. Modal windows, by nature, have to
have a higher Z-Index then any other window.
Remember, we don't have 'windows' here, we have DIVs. The only thing we can
change on them is there size and Z-Index and weather or not they have focus.
This is not a normal Win32 Windows application, this is a glorified web
page. One DIV with a larger surface area and a higher Z-Index will obscure
another DIV that is smaller and has a lower Z-Index, if they have the same
center point. With your proposal, it IS possible to create an AOT window
that DOES obscure a modal window, regardless of how you slice it. You say
that the AOT windows always have a higher Z-Index then all other windows
including modal ones, I say that statement is incorrect and my points in the
first paragraph prove it. If the KDE allows you to create modal windows that
floats under other windows then I think that is BAD and they are not
correct. A misplaced AOT window can then hide a modal one, and I believe
this should NEVER be the case. You should never allow a user to do something
that breaks your application, and a modal window they can't get to is a
'break' in my eyes.
Jim
D4PHP.ORG
On 4/13/07, Ralf Sternberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Jim,
Jim Hunter schrieb:
> I think you are confusing an Always-On-Top and Modal.
Indeed, there are two different concepts that should not be confused:
*modality* is about blocking other windows, *always-on-top* is about the
highest z-index.
I think we should take existing window managers as a reference. I tried
this with KDE and Windows. Both put always-on-top windows on top of
*all* other windows, even modal windows. As I stated in my previous
post, I think this actually makes sense.
> It is always
> possible to open another application on top of your modal window, but
> what should not be possible is for your application-Always On Top window
> to open a modal window that opens up under itself.
This will never happen as a window is brought to top when it is activated.
BTW, there is no such concept like "application-always-on-top". Instead,
there are different types of modal windows: application-modal and
system-modal (sometimes more). An application-modal window blocks the
other windows of the same application. Since it is brought to top when
activated and prevents other windows from being activated, it
automatically stays on top of them.
> In your description
> that is what would happen if I had an Always on Top window that launched
> a modal File Open dialog, especially if the AOT window was a large
> window.
No, then you got me wrong. A modal window can never be opened under the
window it blocks. Clearly, this would be a lock-out situation.
> I feel modal windows should be the top most window in your
> application. We can't control what happens in other applications only
> what happens inside our browser window. One must keep in mind that even
> though it looks like a Windows application, we are still just running
> inside a browser so anything we do with windows can be topped by any
> other application or any other browser window. All we can control is the
> order of the windows inside our browser window, and to that end a modal
> window should always be on top of all other of our windows. Imagine if
> your AOT window was in the center of the screen and large and you opened
> a modal File Open Dialog that was smaller and also popped up in the
> center of the screen. In your scenario, the AOT window would still be on
> top, the modal window would be underneath it and since it was modal you
> would not be able to focus on your AOT window to move it out of the way.
> You are in a frozen condition with a modal window that you can't get to.
> Modal windows need to be on top of all other windows in our application.
All but always-on-top windows. That's my point ;-)
After all, always-on-top windows should be the exception rather than the
rule and should be used with caution. Even on the desktop you can create
weird situations using always-on-top windows that cannot be closed.
Ralf
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