2008/8/17 Sebastian Werner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Have you seen the new documentation?
> http://qooxdoo.org/documentation/0.8/helloworld

> Seems you have overseen the whole 0.8 section:
> http://qooxdoo.org/documentation/0.8

Yes. Well, I saw it about a week ago, but it seemed more like a todo
and feature list back then.
I'm sure there was no helloworld page, etc.

But I admit i didn't check again very recently.
I still suggest putting installation and get-started-info in some
readme in the SVN and finished package.

I was in the practice of [svn update, make source, make build, make api]..
Now, there is a readme and an index.html that contains non-working
links. Just a bootstrap or install script would be nice..

> There is a new script to easily start a new application using the
> skeleton.

Which is very cool. Two issues with it though:
  - the generate.py script isn't executable by default .. i needed to
do a chmod +x generate.py
  - the Hello-World page says to do something like:

~/qooxdoo-0.8-sdk/tool/bin/create-application.py --name=custom --out=~

But it doesn't accept ~ as out, why not change the instruction to:

~/qooxdoo-0.8-sdk/tool/bin/create-application.py --name=custom --out=.

If you make the qooxdoo strucure a little more unix friendly people
can make .deb or .rpm packages out of it. Perhaps someday it can be as
easy as:

sudo aptitude install qooxdoo
qx-create-app "my-custom-app"

Which defaults to creating that app directory in the local directory.

>> 3.  I am at WAR with the dependency resolver. I now have a script that
>> in 30% of the time, makes the resolver work ..
>>
>
> First it does not help me a lot what you are writing here. The
> dependency resolver works flawlessy here with a lot of people.

Yes, it seems I'm the only one.
I doubt it's the Apache2 cache.
But to be on the safe side, I've completely disabled  firefox' cache.
(don't worry, i don't use that firefox as my main browser ;-)

Just to be sure: if my code contains x = new qx.ui.basic.Atom
('test'); .. then it automatically includes the qx.ui.basic.Atom
class, right?

Also, I can still create a hierarchy?

>Touching all
> files, fixing all files etc. is completely nonesense. I see no reason
> something like this is required.

To fool the cache (of qooxdoo or apache?) in thinking things are
updated? I'm not sure how it's all implemented...
I do believe it's a cache problem somewhere ..

> It would be helpful do delete the
> whole cache folder and try it again.

I'm recreating the project now from scratch.

>If then any errors occour please
> send us the output of the generator. It should present you how many
> classes etc. it includes.

Alright, I will.

> This is nowhere related to Apache etc normally, but try to load up
> your application locally (just using file://) when possible to exclude
> all issues with some type of caching your apache may do.

That's not an option. Unless you know how to make firefox not complain
about cross-domain-requests. (I'm under the impression the qooxdoo
cross-domain trick doesn't support full REST .. but i haven't tried it
yet)

>> 4. How are we supposed to use the new layout system? It's confusing ..
>> it seems like we can't change the left/right/top after adding a
>> widget...
>
> Mhh, you can use a Canvas or Basic layout. Tell me please what exactly
> you are trying to do. These issues are always more helpful with some
> type of contextual information.

Sure, the qx.ui.container.Composite class has no setLeft or setTop methods.
We are supposed to supply them when _adding_, which suggest we have to
re-add a widget whenever we want to change its position...

>> The dock layout doesn't do what I expected as well. If I
>> add more than object to the left they are layout horizontally, rather
>> than vertically.
>
> That is exactly what it should do. This is like all these layout types
> behave. They stack up on each edge. The Stack layout in XAML behaves
> the same. Would be interesting where you have seen such a layout you
> are thinking of the Dock layout should be and what the name of such a
> layout is.

I've solved my need by putting a VBox at the east and west side of a
Dock, and a HBox at the north and south.
But I think I understand the design now. What we add to the east is
supposed to take up the whole height. (asif we are adding a toolbar)

>> the demo's are using code we can't see from the demo browser.  See
>> this:
>>
>>   qx.Class.define("demobrowser.demo.table.Table", {
>>     extend : demobrowser.demo.table.TableDemo,
>>
>> The trivial example of a table uses 150 lines of code (without
>> comments counted) and extends some other hidden class we can't see.
>
>
> This is mainly for keeping the real demo code small. This helper
> mainly creates the window were the table is displayed in. This is nice
> to show the resizability of the table when the window is modified for
> example.

Alright, but I would still somehow include that code in the browser ..
the whole point of small 'working' examples we can just copy as a
whole and then change to suit our needs is now gone.

Perhaps it's a better idea to just launch _every_ demo in a internal window?

>> 6. This is likely a bug, but when using SVN groupboxes legends' are
>> cut off and end with dots..
>
> Interesting. When you shrink the GroupBox this is indented though. Can
> you send us a more detailed description with a screenshot or even
> better directly but this issue in a bug report at
> bugzilla.qooxdoo.org? Thanks.

I'm recreating the project now, but if this pops up again, i'll post a
screenshot .. with some small set of working code. But it happened
after updating from the beta to SVN yesterday. It was working
correctly before that.

So perhaps that's a little help?

>> 7. How do I change appeance? I like Modern  .. but it seems to have
>> more bugs, and being able to easily change the layout, at least shows
>> me which bugs are layout-related..
>
> We are working hard to get it cleaned up and polished for the release.
> During some refactorings it might be that the version in SVN is
> unstable.
>
> The themes could be changed in the config.json file in your
> application folder. Documentation on this topic follows in a few days.

Oh, alright! Yes, I thought I saw it somewhere.
So we need to build twice to support two themes?

>> 8. When using [someobj].tr('bla') .. i get run-time errors .. how does
>> language support work now?
>
> What is the error you got. Please put this is a bug report with all
> details. The feedreader do have full localization support enabled and
> it seems to work pretty well.

It wasn't a widget .. i think that was the cause of it..

>> 9. Still no file-upload class .. eventhough the code has been
>> available .. I think this should be a release target; it's just
>> imcomplete .. and without a file upload widget a lot of use-cases
>> dissapear.
>
> It is a contribution but not yet converted to 0.8 as far as I know.
> This is nothing the core team can currently offer as well. We need the
> community to help us in this regard.

Doesn't seem a very complicated widget to me; at least as long as we
can just plugin the url to post the file/data.. the html code is
trivial at least. But I'm not sure how it interacts with the qooxdoo
magic.

>> 10. I had this pet-peeve with 0.7 as well .. how are we suppose to
>> manage memory? Are we suppose to call dispose? When? It was never
>> documented. I just never bothered.
>
> Normally pooling and reusing is better than disposing etc. Short
> answer: Use destroy() on qooxdoo widgets, at least when you just want
> to remove this widget and all it's children. For all other qooxdoo
> objects use dispose() instead.

Do the memory issues occur in every browser? Or can I just depend on
the automatic garbage collector of javascript whenever it's only going
to be used with Firefox..?

>> 11. Documentation isn't considered a release target. This is an
>> organisational bug .. Why? because without documentation we can't
>> properly test your framework. There are zero words about setting up a
>> "hello, world" project. There are no words about how to use the
>> layout-system either. So even the trivial stuff is like searching for
>> a needle in a haystack. Trying out hundred different things...
>> seriously .. with documentation comes collaboration.
>
>
> Also a interesting and helpful introductary read should be:
> http://qooxdoo.org/documentation/0.8/ui_overview

That was a nice read; explained a lot to me.

>> 12. For a lot these things, I would love to submit bug reports, but i
>> don't know what the expected behavior is supposed to be, so I don't
>> know if it's a bug, or if things just work differently now...
>>
>> Please note: All of this critism is meant with all the best
>> intentions, it's just that currently, trying to test the framework is
>> nearly impossible without more information. At this point it seems
>> that the 0.8 official release will be the tech demo and once (a couple
>> of months) when the build system and documentation matures, it will be
>> usuable by developers.  Because that is one bridge that seems to have
>> been ignored...
>
> Mhh, I hope this would finally not be the case. In fact no release
> before had such a good and complete API documentation for example.
> Just have yourself a look at: http://api.qooxdoo.org/devel

Yes, I've spent quite some time there already. Perhaps i'm just biased
because I feel like I know 0.7 well, and the steep learning curve to
0.8 suprised me.

> Still there will be follow some more detailed documentation after the
> release is out. I think this is quite normal for such a big release.

Yes, it was like this in the past as well. But the 'getting started'
part was a lot easier back then. It was the more complicated stuff
that lacked documentation.

Also, there were a lot of trivial (less than 20 lines of code)
examples of how just to use a widget in the most causual use-case.
Slowly the demo's have evolved into monsters that test every little
feature of the widget. WHich is also nice, but I used to use the
trivial demo's a lot.

Greetings,
Ralf Nieuwenhuijsen

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