Am 08.09.2008 um 22:53 schrieb Jean-Baptiste BRIAUD - Novlog: > > On 8 Sep 2008, at 22:36, Petr Kobalíček wrote: > >> Hi Jean, >> > Hi, again I would like to thanks the qooXdoo community for beeing > really helpfull. > >> Can you tell me what exactly you need ? > sure. >> >> >> For example I'm using qooxdoo as precompiled package, I can build one >> for you without dependencies on python with no problem. >> >> I don't know if you really understand all about the dependency about >> python. Let me describe some interesting points: >> - Python is only needed to build application or library package. >> There >> is not need to have python on server. > I understood that but keep in mind we are a generator. So we will have > to launch build process at run time. > So, we would have to install Python on the server. > Even if I don't like that idea, I could deal with that but I already > felt that the "create new application" using the toolchain take too > long and is too CPU intensive. > Also I will have to launch that every 5 minutes for our users to see > their application running.
You don't need this, when you compile 10 packages and just combine them as you need. This is also easier for your dependency tracking. You can just do something like: Core + A + E instead of one script file you may load 3 files. You do not even need to combine them. Just load these packages directly. Sure, you have to create the packages once, but your server can still be completely python-less. > >> >> - Python toolchain is able to optimize or obfuscate javascript code >> to >> (in qx 0.8) two files > Can I do that only once and then forget the toolchain for ever even if > I create new application and even if I continue develipping that > apps ? If yes, I think I could deal with that. Yes, you can do this. It's not optiomal, because your application is not processed by the generator. But all qooxdoo stuff is compiled and optimized then. > >> >> - Python toolchain can be used to remove parts of qooxdoo to make >> your >> library small >> and to include components in contrib section (For example >> UploadWidget or HtmlArea:-D ) >> > That a problem for me as creating an application is like creating a > customer in a CRM application. > >> I can build qooxdoo for you and you can tell us if it's what you >> need. >> (because I'm using qooxdoo like other javascript libraries, just >> include and run:-) ) > Really, another good strong point for qooXdoo is the helpfull > community ! > I really appreciate your help. > > >> >> >> I'm sure that you are still talking with us, because you are >> impressed >> with qooxdoo framework > That exactly that ! Really I hope it could work but I'm still not sure > and I have to engage an entire product architecture. > >> and I'm able to help you to start using it by >> your way! >> > I would like to be convinced it is possible. > > Can I build or get a bunch of files that I could name qooXdoo and > include it without chaning it on several different application ? > I understood last Sebastian answer as this was not possible for > performance reason if not for size reason. > Basically I understood the file will be big but not only that, it will > be very long to initialized the classes ... > Am I right ? Yes, you can :) even better you can split it into 10 or more logical parts which results into less overhead than using one single big file. Sebastian > > >> Cheers >> - Petr >> >> 2008/9/8 Jean-Baptiste BRIAUD - Novlog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> On 8 Sep 2008, at 21:58, Sebastian Werner wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Am 08.09.2008 um 18:15 schrieb Jean-Baptiste BRIAUD - Novlog: >>>> >>>>> Good point ! >>>>> >>>>> I didn't realized that performance issue as I was focused on size. >>>>> >>>>> And what about a lazy loading or on demand loading of classes ? >>>>> So unused but included classes won't be loaded, initialised ... >>>>> >>>>> I guess the answer is : that's why there is a Python build, so >>>>> unused >>>>> classes are not even included and it is quicker. >>>> >>>> Yeah, this is one point. The others are all the other features like >>>> internationalization, image sprites, custom API viewer, unit tests >>>> for >>>> own classes, etc. There are so many things available in this >>>> toolchain. >>>> >>> I won't be able to use all that on our product. >>> >>> I would like to be able to use qooXdoo without the toolchain or I >>> will >>> have to choose on my short list between : >>> SmartClient or OpenLaszlo for one only reason : toolchain look like >>> mandatory. >>> >>>> Sebastian >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> You forgot that part of my answer, the most important : >>> >>>>> I understand that, but for us (with our generator on top of >>>>> qooXdoo) >>>>> either we have a performace issue at load time (with big distrib >>>>> hypothesys) witch is not acceptable or we have a build-time >>>>> performance issue when launching the Python build everytime our >>>>> user >>>>> want to see the resulting application (and that could happen very >>>>> often, like every 5 min) and it may not be acceptable as well. >>>>> >>>>> Whatever we do it will be slow to launch the application either >>>>> way. >>>>> >>>>> That's why I come back with that lazy loading thing but to be >>>>> honest I >>>>> don't know enough qooXdoo to feel how hard it could be. >>>>> Maybe it is just a crazy idea ... >>>>> >>>>> Any other idea to improve that ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 8 Sep 2008, at 17:51, Sebastian Werner wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That definitely should work. You can also try a >>>>>> >>>>>> cd framework >>>>>> ./generate.py build >>>>>> >>>>>> As far as I have understood this should also create a bundled >>>>>> one-package qooxdoo. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just one thing to keep in mind. While the size (network wise) may >>>>>> not >>>>>> hurt you, the load time definitely increase for such a use-case. >>>>>> The >>>>>> issue is that every class, used or not, must be parsed and >>>>>> initialized >>>>>> by the browser. This is the main reason why we build these >>>>>> optimized >>>>>> applications most of the time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Jean-Baptiste BRIAUD - Novlog schrieb: >>>>>>> Might be a really stupid idea ... but how about a fake >>>>>>> application >>>>>>> that would use (just by referencing for example) all widgets and >>>>>>> sort >>>>>>> of modules, so the build will produce the "big javascript" I >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> like ? >>>>>>> I think to that rather than other approach to make sure I'll be >>>>>>> able >>>>>>> to have "my build" with future version. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does it make sense ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5 Sep 2008, at 15:11, thron7 wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Derrell Lipman wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 8:08 AM, thron7 >>>>>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (I also had to exclude qx.ui.progressive, due to an >>>>>>>>>> incompatibility with >>>>>>>>>> qx.ui.table which I deemed more important to have). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But I'll be fixing the problem in Progressive today, so >>>>>>>>> you'll be >>>>>>>>> able to >>>>>>>>> remove that exclusion too. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I guess Jean-Baptiste is on 0.8, not trunk, so he'll has to >>>>>>>> keep >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> exclusion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> T. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move >>>>>>>> Developer's >>>>>>>> challenge >>>>>>>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & >>>>>>>> win >>>>>>>> great prizes >>>>>>>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the world >>>>>>>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move >>>>>>> Developer's >>>>>>> challenge >>>>>>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>>>>>> great prizes >>>>>>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> the world >>>>>>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move >>>>>> Developer's >>>>>> challenge >>>>>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>>>>> great prizes >>>>>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >>>>>> the world >>>>>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>>>> challenge >>>>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>>>> great prizes >>>>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >>>>> the world >>>>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>>> challenge >>>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>>> great prizes >>>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >>>> the world >>>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>> challenge >>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>> great prizes >>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >>> the world >>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >> challenge >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >> great prizes >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >> the world >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >> _______________________________________________ >> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win > great prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in > the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > qooxdoo-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ _______________________________________________ qooxdoo-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
