I want 4 cents too ;-)
As it was done by others, I'd like to add that I'm a Java developer.
I discovered js with OpenLaszlo but I really used it with Qooxdoo.
I'm don't have web background (HTML, CSS, ...)
On 14 juin 2010, at 21:04, thron7 wrote:
> I take the opportunity to throw in another 2 cent of mine (giving me an
> overall share of 4 cent in this thread ;).
>
> Single-file qooxdoo
> People sympathizing with this idea should also consider handling of
> images. How would a single-file qooxdoo download handle the many images
> that are used by framework classes, from obvious images like icons in the
> Tree widget to denote files and folders, to less obvious like the
> background images for buttons (for pressed, unpressed, hovered, ...
> states) and images to create the border decoration of widgets. Can anyone
> offer a compelling strategy how to address this? Because if not, the whole
> idea is flawed, because as it currently stands you cannot use qooxdoo
> widgets without the accompanying images.
>
Why not a single zip file that also include images ?
The purpose of that way to use/distrib Qooxdoo is to improve simplicity for
first time users.
So, a simple zip file containg images should be OK.
I won't do the song again : not optimized ? OK, can be optimized later on using
Python build when people had learnt Qooxdoo.
Few constraints will still be there like one file per class so moving under the
powerful build will be easier.
> qooxdoo reputation
> I'm surprised to hear that RAP and IBM are being the flagship references
> for qooxdoo. What about 1&1, one of the biggest internet hosters
> worldwide, and GMX.com, with some *hundreds of thousands* of users using
> it's qooxdoo-based mail client?! Does anyone care to point prospective
> customers to our "Real-life Examples" page[1]?
Maybe you right in Germany... Most people here never heard about 1&1 and
exactly nobody about gmx.
Only very few geeks that have seen some ads on Linux mag heard about 1&1
without clear vision of who is it.
IBM is better known than 1&1, I hope it is not a surprise !
IBM is one big originator for Eclipse, a World Wide open source successful
project, so really, no surprise here.
Maybe I'm myself too much centered on my own domain, but on software
development world, IBM > Eclipse >> RAP >> (Qooxdoo || 1&1)
We are contributing to build a true market outside 1&1 for Qooxdoo techno, so
we try to partner with Qooxdoo as much as we can, but this is not simple being
outside 1&1.
Every time I talk to software architect, they just purely never heard about
Qooxdoo and 1&1.
I'm facing it everyday and this is a problem.
I always has to explain to tech guys why Qooxdoo is better than JQuery or other
js based framework.
Sometimes, I also had to defend Qooxdoo against Flex/AIR but this not as
frequent as JQuery questions.
>
> qooxdoo contrib
> contrib has always be seen as an incubator, just read the main page [2].
> So there was always the perspective of bringing suitable contribs into the
> core framework. But who will maintain them? It's not enough to copy the
> files over. If they are in the framework, it's sort of a commitment to
> maintain them for the foreseeable future. Who will do that? Who will
> commit himself for the next 3+ years to maintain some widget or name space
> in qooxdoo?! If we find it a challenge to add more features, how much more
> would it be to maintain more foreign code?!
>
Too much a self organizing incubator.
Aligning tons of plugins is the Eclipse's mistake.
I would not like this becoming Qooxdo's mistake to align tons of contrib for
tons of things.
Note : I only used backend contrib.
Let me share some thoughts :
1. we need a searchable catalog for all contrib (currently, only a svn checkout
and complete code browsing might do the stuff)
2. what will be the difference from contrib A and contrib B that are supposed
to do the same thing (according to Wiki) ?
You don't know before testing = you don't know before spending hours and hours
testing trying ...
Exactly like Eclipse. You want to use SVN ? OK, there are several plugins.
Which one to choose ? Try ...
That's a hell and that's only the beginning :
3. Dependencies and update.
Current contrib (only SVN ?) look like RPM package on Linux. APT is far better
: it manage the searchable catalog and manage update for you.
What "thing" will manage the dependency and the update of the contrib I've
choosen ?
I would not like to have to pool SVN HEAD to be aware of news. Also, HEAD is
unstable and dangerous.
4. State. Some contrib are more like abandonware but as a user, you don't know.
You have to lose half an hour just to notice that contrib doesn't take care of
the lastest version of Qooxdoo.
To check if it is stable, you have to loose at least half a day.
=> contrib is good but it need improvements on how to manage them (maybe there
are big differences between browser and backend one)
> qooxdoo user base
> How important are users for me? Very important! But there a differences
> between users, and our most important user is, guess what, 1&1. Why is
> qooxdoo open source? Because 1&1 decided to share generic development done
> for their purposes with other people who may find it interesting and
> useful.
> Do we want to grow our user base indefinitely? Why not? But as it
> currently stands we're at the brink of what we can handle. Fabian has left
> the team and it is hard to find a replacement. In-house demands for
> qooxdoo are growing (and this is a Good Thing). We are spending about
> 1-8(!) hours per day on the mailing list. People outside the core team
> that are really effective are rare, and do not stick with the project
> (like Matt Gregory, who did an excellent job on the ML while he was with
> it).
> Do we want more users? I for one want more givers, and not only takers.
> And without that, I'm quite happy with the user base we have.
>
I'm puzzled by your answer.
You start saying user base is important and you end up the demonstration saying
"I'm quite happy with the user base we have".
Please clarify your point.
How important are we outside 1&1 ?
> Most people using qooxdoo are concerned with their own work and projects,
> and this is all fair enough. Most people even don't care to comment on
> announcements or weekly status reports as if they simply weren't there.
I do not feel concern :
* we choose Qooxdoo as one masterpiece brick of our software architecture : we
are tight to Qooxdoo and try to improve partnership with Qooxdoo.
* we contributed and it represent a big investment expressed in % since we are
a start'up.
* I put qooxdoo in all my social networks, comments on ajaxian, give pointers
here to encourage qx community to vote on some site ...
Anyway, the question would be why is it like you said ?
> Ok. But all who have demands or desires for anything new or different,
> should think at the same time that our resources are tight and should
> offer real contributions (read: code) with any enhancement request and be
> prepared to sustain this submission for a long time. I'm sorry for anybody
> being discontent with qooxdoo, for one reason or another. But we cannot
> cater for everybody.
it is not as if all demands goes everywhere ... There is focus on some points.
And globally, there are also a lots of positives points, I would not like to
finish without adding that.
There are more positive points than negatives points, but to improve Qooxdoo,
listen to what community is saying.
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