Hi Facundo,

Yes, totally correct. This is exactly what should be done if you treat 
H2O and temperature as forward model parameter uncertainties. That this 
is OK (and better than setting Se=Sn) is not clearly expressed by 
Rodgers, and as a reference for this I append one of my first articles:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102809064/eriksson-2000-analy.pdf

See Eq 8. Yes, you are right, the impact of H2O and temperature will 
automatically be part of the retrieval error (e.g. in L2.speciesX_eo).


Let me just make another thing clear. As I have written, you obtain the 
same result by instead retrieving H2O and temperature in parallel to 
ozone. For a linear case, you will get identical results. And this is 
the way I think most people are handling interfering effects today. 
However, it is here important to note that with this later set-up, the 
impact of H2O and temperature comes out as part of the smoothing error 
(l2.speciesX_es). Accidentally, I am writing a document right now where 
I felt forced to dig into this and give a detailed explanation. So maybe 
I will come back to this point later, when I have something that can be 
circulated.

Bye,

Patrick





On 11/11/15 22:01, Facundo Orte wrote:
> Patrick,
> thank you very much for your reply.
>
> I will proceed to share what I did. I implemented the first of your
> suggestions. So,
>
> Se = Sn + Kt*St*Kt^T + Kh2o*Sh2o*Kh2o^T
>
> (I changed the nomenclature with respect to the previous email to not
> confuse with the nomenclature of Matlab functions)
>
> where:
> Sn: covariance related with noise (in Matlab function,
> Sn=Y.TNOISE^2.*Q.TNOISE_C)
> Kt: jacobian temperature
> St: covariance matrix of temperature
> Kh2o: jacobian of water vapour
> Sh2o: covariance matrix of water vapour
>
> I implemented it inside of a function called qp2_y2Q, which is inside of
> qpack2.m. qp2_y2Q is implemented as:
>
> [Q,Se] = qp2_y2Q( Q, Y, m);
>
> where the output Se is now the quantity in the equation of the
> covariance matrix as above (Se = Sn + Kt*St*Kt^T + Kh2o*Sh2o*Kh2o^T).
> Therefore, the retrieval error will consider the error due to noise,
> temperature and H2O without any other modification in Qpack because the
> calculation of other retrieval parameters (such as cost, G, etc.) in
> oem.m takes into account the covariance matrix Se.
>
> Is it correct?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Best regards
>
> Facundo
>
>
>
>
> 2015-11-01 18:17 GMT-03:00 Patrick Eriksson
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>:
>
>     Facundo,
>
>     You were not unclear, I tried to answer exactly what you wrote in
>     your last email.
>
>     First of all, if you want to sum up uncertainties you should not use
>     matrix inverses. You do it as:
>
>     S = Se + Kb*Sb*Kb^T
>
>
>     (What you want to do was better supported in Qpack1, but I had a
>     hard time to find a general way to cover all possible combinations
>     that could be of interest. For Qpack2 you need to do some tricks.)
>
>     Let us use T as example. If you want to get out the Kb matching T,
>     you can e.g. deactivate all present retrieval variables, and just
>     set T as retrieval variable, and Q.T.L2 = true. Then make a linear
>     inversion and Kb = L2.J. (You can do the same thing for H2O. The
>     uncertainty associated with O2 should be negligible.)
>
>     With this Kb, the retrieval error due to T is calculated as
>
>     Sr = G*Kb*St*Kb^T*G^T
>
>     where St is the temperature covariance matrix.
>
>     The above should answer your direct question. However, if the error
>     due to T is significant, you can do better. This simple by
>     retrieving T in parallel to O3. The extra calculation cost is quite
>     small, and I would recommend you to do this as the error related to
>     T will then be smaller. If you don't care about the result for T,
>     you just set Q.T.L2=false.
>
>     If you still want to calculate the error due to T, you can do as
>     above, or use L2.jq and L2.ji to extract the part of L2.J that
>     matches T, as I tried to describe in my last answer.
>
>     If H2O should also be retrieved depends on your exact set-up.
>
>     Bye,
>
>     Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     On 10/29/15 14:19, Facundo Orte wrote:
>
>         Dear Patrick,
>         Thank you so much for the reply and I am sorry for not be clear.
>         I set Qpack to retrieve only ozone. Other gases and T (H2O, O2
>         and T) I
>         set as Q.ABS_SPECIES.RETRIEVE=false, because I am not interesting in
>         water vapor, oxygen, and T, but I include NCEP profiles of
>         these gases and temperature in Q.DEFINITIONS.m for ARTS
>         calculation and
>         to model the spectrum. O2 is included because the frequency range of
>         measurement is 110.83GHz and this gas also absorb the signal. These
>         profiles have some uncertainties and I want to introduce these
>         uncertainties in the covariance matrix for the cost calculation
>         and so
>         on. What I need is to include these uncertainties in the
>         covariance matrix.
>
>         I think that I can include it in the covariance matrix doing:
>
>         S^(-1)=Se^(-1) + Kb^T*Sb^(-1)*Kb
>
>         where Kb is the jacobian of non-retrieval parameters (in my case
>         H2O, T,
>         and O2), Sb is the covariance matrix related with the non-retrieval
>         parameters and Se is the covariance matrix related with noise. S
>         is the
>         covariance matrix used to calculate the cost as following.
>
>         cost=[y-F(x,b)]^T * *S*^(-1) * [y-F(x,b)] + [x-xa]^T * Sx^(-1) *
>         [x-xa]
>
>         At this time, I introduce the covariance matrix only related
>         with noise
>            (S=Se) and I not include the uncertainties for water vapor, T
>         and O2
>         profiles.
>
>         I think that the Jacobians of non-retrieval parameters are
>         similar for
>         different measurements. So, my idea is to calculate these
>         jacobians one
>         time and use it then for the calculation of different
>         measurements. It
>         will avoid the calculation of these jacobians in each measurement.
>
>         My problem is that I do not know how to include the
>         uncertainties for
>         non-retrieval parameters profiles in the covariance matrix S.
>
>         Thanks in advance
>         Best regards
>
>         2015-10-27 16:55 GMT-03:00 Patrick Eriksson
>         <[email protected]
>         <mailto:[email protected]>
>         <mailto:[email protected]
>         <mailto:[email protected]>>>:
>
>
>              Dear Facundo,
>
>              As I understand your question, the answer is no. Or at
>         least, this
>              can not be done automatically.
>
>              However, if you think that H2O and temperature can give
>         substantial
>              errors (I can not see how O2 should give rise to an error), you
>              should retrieve H2O and T in parallel to O3. That will
>         decrease the
>              impact of H2O and T. In short, OEM will then adjust as far as
>              possible to H2O and T uncertainties. The impact of H2O and
>         T will
>              then be included in the standard error estimate.
>
>              You have seen that Qpack can give you the error covariance
>         matrix?
>
>              If you retrieve H2O and T, what you call df/dH2O and df/dT
>         are part
>              of the (total) Jacobian matrix, that you can trigger Qpack to
>              output, i.e. L2.J. The fields L2.jq and L2.ji give you
>         information
>              about what part of J that belong to H2O and T etc. That
>         should give
>              you a way to calculate separate errors.
>
>              Bye,
>
>              Patrick
>
>
>
>
>              On 10/27/15 20:15, Facundo Orte wrote:
>
>                  Dear all,
>                  I am very new using Qpack. I am setting Qpack to
>         retrieve ozone
>                  profiles
>                  using ARTS. At this moment, I am able to retrieve
>         coherent ozone
>                  profiles, but to calculate covariance matrix I am
>         trying to get the
>                  jacobian for water vapor (df/dH2O), oxygen(df/dO2) and
>         temperature
>                  (df/dT) (to include the uncertainties of these gases and
>                  temperature),
>                  due to these gases absorb radiation in the frequency
>         range of
>                  measurement. Is it possible to get these jacobians at
>         the same
>                  time as
>                  the retrieval species (O3)?
>                  Thanks in advance
>
>                  Regards
>                  Facundo
>
>
>                  _______________________________________________
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>         <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
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>
>

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