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Jim it's pointless to argue about this you obviously think an embryo is a human life.
Given that isn't it more respectful to use these soon to be destroyed embryos and use them
to in a more respectful manner than to destroy and gain nothing for their life.
This would make their so called life useless and that shows total disrespect for their life.
Now if you want to aknowledge their life you might as well give them names and a decent burial instead
of throwing them in the circular file.
Mark
-------Original Message-------
Date: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 8:43:06 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Political Garbage, & False Logic .... Reaction to: Communist Party Endorsement Kerry/Edwards
At 01:50 PM 10/12/2004, QuadPirate wrote:
What Clinton did in these countries was not called protecting our country but this war is a war to protect us from wmd and I agree we should face him now rather than later.
You can't compare these Military acts they're not the same
Mark, you said "some soldiers don't think this has anything to do with protecting our country which is what they volunteered for." I used Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia and Kosovo as examples of other operations where solders were sent by another president to rebut that statement. I was not comparing those operations to Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Kosovo was also backed by the U.N not that the U.N. aren't a bunch of crooks but we were backed by an international effort to keep peace in these places and human rights.
Kosovo did not get approved by the U.N., it was a NATO mission.
There are a lot of people that think we screwed up going into Iraq and I don't remember our country split in half over these Military acts Clinton ordered and they shouldn't have.
Besides media bias against Bush only showing the negative, I guess you don't remember that famous quote from anti-war protester and actress Janeane Garafalo, "It Wasn't Very Hip" to Protest Clinton's Wars. http://www.homunculus.com/articles/garofalojaneane/garofalofoxnews030224.html
Now the Stop loss program isn't new to the Bush administration but I would disagree that every soldier was aware of this when they signed up or they wouldn't be complaining.
The media is playing up the ones complaining. My brother knew it when he enlisted. The information I found confirms it.
- There are two ways to serve in the US Army: either serve full-time in Active Duty as an Enlisted Soldier or Officer, or serve part-time as an Enlisted Soldier or Officer in the Army Reserve. All Soldiers have a statutory eight-year military service obligation (MSO), which is established at the time of entry into military service (Active or Reserve). Traditional enlistment terms are three, four, five and six years. Terms of service for active duty are from 2-6 years.
I would like to know why it's needed, could it be because there isn't enough trained personel to finish this war?
Yes that's exactly why which is a huge oversite by the administration, they've started a war and forgot they needed trained soldiers to finish it.
I found a news transcript from General Peter Schoomaker, Chief Of Staff, U.S. Army, on July 26, 2004 which answers your questions.
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2004/tr20040726-1042.html
If you don't want to believe the Generals in charge and rather believe what you hear and read in the bias media that have an agenda then that's up to you.
I'm not knocking this war but they've made some massive mistakes at the cost of human life which brings me back to my original post about how can a President send you into combat knowing "some" will die which is sacrificing human life and a thinking, breathing, living life with children, parents, brothers and sisters and they're being sacrificed for the better of all men but won't let Federal Funds be used for research on what most of the world agrees is not a living being.
Give me an argument on that because even if an embryo is life there's no difference in the sacrifice except I think a man with a family is a much worse one.
If an embryo is a human life (which I haven't personally decided it is) then it should be protected, just as a unborn child at any age (my belief, yours my differ). I think it's a totally bogus argument to try to equate that with a President sending a soldier to war. The only way to not have anyone die in war is to never send anyone to war. Like I said before, soldiers volunteer of their own free will. You want to decide that a human embryo can be sacrificed without any say in the matter. I'm willing to hold off on human embryo research until we (all humanity) can determine if it is a human life.
When we search for the existence of life on Mars we search for microscopic remains. So if a microscopic organism is considered "life" shouldn't we proceed cautiously when dealing with what might be a human life?
-------Original Message-------
From: Jim Lubin
At 11:31 AM 10/12/2004, QuadPirate wrote:
Jim number one I agree with you that soldiers should follow their orders regardless of their personal feelings but you're dismissing the fact that some soldiers don't think this has anything to do with protecting our country which is what they volunteered for.
Yes I am dismissing the fact that some soldiers don't think a particular mission has nothing to do with protecting our country. The same can be said with any operation the military is sent to do that some don't agree with it. Clinton sent soldiers to Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia and Kosovo, can you tell me what those operations had to do with protecting our country?
Now as far as saying they are there of their own free will is dead wrong as you can see for yourself.
WASHINGTON (AP) � The Army will prevent soldiers in units set to deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan from leaving the service at the end of their terms, a top general said Wednesday.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-06-02-us-military_x.htm
So I would argue that these soldiers are not volunteering any more but forced to do otherwise so yea re-enlistment is up to par except for the National Guard but still this is no longer an all volunteer Army anymore.
You may or may not be aware that after a soldier's enlistment is up they can be recalled to active duty for 2 to 3 years. Every soldier knows this. It's in the enlistment contract. I know this from when my brother was discharged 1996 after being active duty for 6 years. The so-called "back door draft" is just political redderic ment to sway public opinion. The "stop-loss" program is not something new with the Bush administration.
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