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I believe they called home after being held against their will and were concerned about the consequences
they were facing.
As far as how our men died I don't really think it matters whether it was hostile or not I still think they died in a war
and for that I recognize their sacrifice.
And don't tell me after 9/11 we didn't think people would blow themselves up, if they didn't plan on that happening
then like I said they had no clue who they were dealing with.
This isn't nothing new with terrorist they've been doing this for a long time and in some places a preferred weapon.
OK I believed it when I "Read it."
You can candy coat who you think that sign was for but I think different it was displayed for the whole world to see
and quotes like the ones below tell me different.
You can't tell me they needed a sign right behind the podium to tell their crew members mission accomplished they
have loud speaker I'm sure.
"And tonight, I have a special word for Secretary Rumsfeld, for General Franks
and for all the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States:
America is grateful for a job well done."
"The battle of Iraq is one "victory" in a war on terror
that began on September the 11th, 2001 and still goes on."
BTW a victorious battle means successful "ending" of a struggle or contest.
It's obvious to the whole country they thought this was going to be a whole lot easier
and the fact that they didn't expect terrorist to use terrorist tactics is a perfect example.
How do you defend yourself from someone blowing themselves up?
First you plan on it happening!
Then you arm your troops with proper equipment like armor to keep down casualties!
You can't plan on everything but you can at least plan on the obvious.
But your question on how do you defend yourself from someone blowing themselves up
is a good example of Naders plan because the only way is to get out of the freakin way!
The only way they will stop is when the last one blows up or stop inflaming them so
stop inflaming them or get out of the way.
If you're going to fight a war I say fight it and stop screwing around but you can't win this war
if you're not willing to take the necessary actions like killing a shit load of innocent people and
I'm not even sure if people not telling us the enemy are living next door are innocent but the
rest of the world is and that would inflame even more people.
So either shit or get off the pot!
This probably isn't a popular opinion but it's mine so I believe Nader's plan to leave is as good as
Bush's plan to stay and die a slow death unless he plans on getting old school and win this war
which he doesn't at least I don't think so.
So my opinion is we need a President that is more responsible for our soldiers that have their hands tied.
But don't worry I don't believe we'll see Nader giving an acceptance speech this time around because the
Dems & Rep are so powerful they're having him silenced, they don't want anyone hearing the truth no time soon
so give your vote for big business dead soldiers and a pocket full of lies and empty promises I guarantee nothing
will change under these 2 candidates except more people joining terrorist groups which is on the rise.
Mark
-------Original Message-------
Date: Saturday, October 16, 2004 19:48:40
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] troops are concerned
At 01:06 PM 10/16/2004, QuadPirate wrote:
Well if you read why they refused it was due to equipment they needed like armor for their hummers.
I don't think that has anything to do with training this is nothing short of not protecting our soldiers because of poor planning.
I have not seen their actual complains yet, just the second hand accounts retold by family members. I'm not saying they may not have had legitimate concerns for their safety but it should have been dealt with at the unit, platoon, battalion level through the chain of command. Soldiers have some recourse. If their immediate commander was deliberately sending them into an unsafe situation without proper equipment, he or she would have been dealt with. It was wrong for them to call home. That reflects their training.
The military hummer was never designed to be an armored vehicle. They are the main transport vehicle since replacing the old jeeps. They are being retro fitted but everything can not stop until it's completed.
My brother may be in a "safer" area, but he said they have still been shot at while on the road. The humve he was travelling in has broken down. When he was home on R&R last month he said the strangest thing was not having his weapon with him.
As far as Nader goes I believe he's at least being honest and actually has a plan, this doesn't mean he's going to stop the war on terrorism
I found Nader's plan for Iraq, http://votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=55
Could not find a plan on the war on terrorism. Apparently he do not believe we are at war.
. It means he wants some help because he sees our men dying. I f you want to see what he's tired of just look here.
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/20040909_THOUSAND_GRAPHIC/index_PICTURES.html
Regardless of who you're voting for you should at least know who's dying for America.
I didn't mind getting rid of Saddam I thought it was the right thing to do but only if you're ready for the aftermath which this administration clearly had no idea this was going to end up like this and over a thousand dead soldiers so far.
Here is the updated casualty report. http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf
It shows the actual numbers killed by hostile and non-hostile actions. If any administration could have planned for every possible contingency and not have any casualties I would be highly doubtful. How can you defend against someone willing to blow themselves up? That's how many casualties have been caused.
I remember the exact words that prove my point
"Mission Accomplished" I believed it when I heard it but these words are clearly wrong and I can't remember the exact date but I think it was over a year ago I heard them.
If you are referring to Bush's speech from the flight deck of the USS Lincoln on May 1, 2003, your memory has been contaminated by the propaganda. Bush never said "Mission Accomplished". Here is the transcript.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/01/bush.transcript/
The sign in back of him read "Mission Accomplished" and was intended for the crew of the USS Lincoln which was returning from the longest carrier deployment in recent history. I watched it. The USS Lincoln is based here in Washington state so the coverage about it was on our local news. BTW, it just left again yesterday for a 4 month deployment.
I know there's a cost for freedom but you need to fight for it like our country did and the you will be rewarded. Where's our reward in this?
My opinion of this war is changing with time and I personally think we're not doing a good job.
I personally don't think changing administrations at this elections would improve thing, it would make things worst. The latest survey of the military seems to suggest the same feeling. My brother told me in his unit of 18 soldiers, 15 were voicing their support for Bush, 3 for Kerry. I hope the final election results are similarly reflected.
Mark
-------Original Message-------
From: Jim Lubin
Date: Saturday, October 16, 2004 13:31:43
To: QuadPirate; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] troops are concerned
At 11:05 AM 10/16/2004, QuadPirate wrote:
River this shows how poorly this war is being run.
I'm sure president Nader will do a better job since he plans on "replacing US forces with a UN peacekeeping force". http://www.votenader.org/issues/index.php?cid=17
I might have to translate that.
Put US forces under UN control so I can say "I withdrew US forces and we are now part of a collation participating in the UN peacekeeping forces"
I don't blame these troops for speaking up and not driving into an ambush unprepared.
I blame the training they received prior to being sent over. The units that left from here had intense 2 months of refresher training before each unit was certified ready to deploy. I say refresher training because every reservist received basic training in addition to the weekend a month and 2 weeks a year. I blame the unit commanders for not addressing their concerns and taking care of their soldiers. I don't see it as a microcosm of how the entire war is being executed.
Jim
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