Hey W! Good hearing from you! A good friend of mine who had once been quite involved in ACAA and fly-able wheelchair users discussed these issues at length with his contacts at DOT, FAA and certain "higher-ups" at airlines (I forget names but shall look). What it primarily boiled down to was that not all wheelchairs are as strong or provide the same side-to-side and back support.
I completely understand that. Chairs range from manual with no sides and a very low back sipport to powered with strong side and full back and head support... and everything between. While all agreed belts differ, it was conceded that belts can be easily be supplied and secured. At the time (and this might be different now... I haven't checked) the amount of "break-free" force of airline seats was less than that of car seats and tiedowns (6Gs of force to break a plane seat away from the floor versus 9Gs to break off in a land-based vehicle). The main argument against tiedowns similar to those in vehicles was it could cause a tripping hazzard... and I agree since no single other tiedown will work with every wheelchair type, the tie straps are the best we can currently hope for. (But that's what engineers are for.) As for who removes and reinstalls seats, that was explained as a would-be function of the crew that loads/unloads planes. The ground crews are employees of the terminal. USAir crews work on USAir planes, Northwest crews work on Northwest planes. (In fact, this is how I was able to track down each person involved in transferring me, loading and unloading my chair when it was dropped [CRO Report notwithstanding], and flight attendants who were there to see and hear what went on up to 2 years later.) There may have been some changes in how some crews work but the training is not equal to all planes across all airlines. Each airline's employees are supposed to know the planes that they will be responsible for when they land at their terminal. Special maintenance can take place at most airports to replace seats in a short time if, for instance, a seat row get seriously soiled with bodily fluids (incontinence, vomit, blood). Some messes can be cleaned but others are biohazards. They don't reuse those seats until it reaches the origination point. They remove them. At least this is what my ACAA attorney-friend told me. Best wishes! --Tod ---- [email protected] wrote: > I'd like to disagree with you. What looks "like" the Q'Straint System and > was IS can be two different things. If you look at the rows of webbing on a > jet seat belt and compare it the webbing on an automotive seal belt, they > may look the same, but I can assure you that the Jet Belts are built to a > much different standard. In a typical jet all the seats are measured the > same unless you are comparing 1st Class with Coach. \ > Also while it often seems like air personal all work for the same > company.... they don't and are represented by several different unions, with > work > rules. > Let us say for argument sake, the securements are the same. A flight > attendant can not remove a seat for a person in a wheelchair. When they get > to > their next destination, where are they going to find a replacement seat to > fill the gap, on a sell out flight? And who would be responsible for > re-installing the seat? > 'Wheelchairs and their owners vary greatly to make a standard comparison. > Those tracks may look like the ones found in ground transportation but I > can assure you they are not. Just as the sealt belt in your van looks very > similar to the seatbelt in a jet plane. But it isn't. > > But I thought yours was a great idea. > Best Wishes > > > In a message dated 10/1/2009 3:44:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > Hi All Q-Folks! > > Where do I sign? Check this out.... > > Not long ago I was on a flight where I was able to see how commercial > aircraft seats are attached in planes. As a preface, let me remind everyone > how recently several carriers began offering "more leg room" in coach class > seats. Well, how did they do that so easily and evenly throughout an > entire plane? > > Well, golly... That's what I found out!! These "super secure" seats that > meet stringent FAA Safety Regulations are held in place by the same types > of adjustable in-floor metal strips that are used by Q-Straint... one of > the most popular vehicle tie-down systems. It's those in-floor strips that > belts can be locked into (or removed from) to allow people in wheelchairs to > use a lot of paratransit vans, busses and/or taxis. > > THAT is what holds an airplane seat in place and THAT is how airlines were > able to easily adjust all of their coach seats to provide an extra 5" leg > room for everyone! > > If any petition is being passes around for actual signatures, it should > certainly include all the airline staff and flight attendants who get to do > all the extra work or see all the extra problems first-hand. My last flight > included two flight attendants who were adamant that I be removed from the > plane safely. The ground crew wanted me put in an aisle chair to be > carried down steep steps to the tarmac. The flight attendants refused and > fought try to get the plane to a terminal with a jetway! > > All along they kept saying it would be SO MUCH easier for everyone if they > would just allow wheelchairs in the flight cabin. They agreed even more > when I told them how my wheelchair was dropped from cargo bin (destroyed) 4 > years ago. > > It can be done. And the airline personnel most closely involved would > like it to be done. But the big "bottom line" folks seem to think it would > cost too much. > > (And A Quick Note on That: > In just ONE year, just that one airline that dropped my chair paid out > approximately $250,000 in repairs & replacements to damaged equipment PLUS > an > $800,000 fine for not properly complying with transport rules in handling > chairs and adaptive equipment. And that doesn't count lost suits and > settlements from damage and/or injury!!) > > So... if anybody was questioning tghe difficulty, there's some facts. And > just from a practicle point of view just think... They can make a 747 or a > C-130 takeoff and fly!!! And they fly up and down for 40 years. Do you > really think adding a movable seat is beyond their safety and engineering > abilities? > > Best to ALL! > --Tod > > ---- "John S." <[email protected]> wrote: > > Over the years the airlines have refused to position the seats facing > the back. This little trick would have saved thousands of lives. I can"t see > them installing lock downs for chairs that no engineer has even thought > about placing in an airplane. I'm pretty certain the best chair I own would > come apart like wicker furniture in a tornado if it and I experienced a 10G > stop. Placing a crippled person nearest the exit isn't going to pass muster > with the NTSB, either. > > The logical place for us to fly in our wheelchairs is most likely where > they place animals. I personnaly want to fly inside a black box. > > > > BW, > > john > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Dan <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:56:03 PM > > Subject: [QUAD-L] Air Carriers Access Act > > > > > > Seventeen-year-old girl petitions airlines for wheelchair accessibility > (eTurboNews) > > >Sally O'Neill is a 17-year-old girl with cerebral palsy, and all she > wants when she flies is to be able to remain in her own wheelchair. Sally is > circulating a petition calling on the airline industry to modify the first > seat in the first row to allow passengers with disabilities using > wheelchairs to remain in their own wheelchairs during flight. > > Dan > > > > > > > > >
