On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 12:58:24PM -0500, Jean-Philippe Ouellet wrote: > On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Chris Laprise <[email protected]> > wrote: > > How often are VMs created? > > Personally? At least daily. And deleted nearly as often. > > I try to use a separate VM for each project I work on that has a > different set of trusted 3rd parties, and find myself wanting > something like DispVMs but with short-term (~several day) persistence. > > > Maybe Ctrl+N would be appropriate. Del/Backspace, > > Ctrl+C, Spacebar... No. > > So these shortcuts are inappropriate here simply because they remind > you of a different type of application? If they make sense here, who > cares what else they remind someone of? Call me thick, but I still > don't get it... > > > A list of VirtualBox shortcut keys: > > http://kbmode.com/windows/virtualbox-keyboard-shortcuts/ > > They have a ton of them, and "which keys are still unbound?" likely > played a large role in their assignment. IMO their results should not > motivate our decision here. > > > There are a lot, and all but the Help function use modifiers. Since Qubes' > > UI is in flux, I suggest defining small numbers of them for any given point > > release. > > Agreed, which is why I'm only targeting the ones I expect are most used. > > > I think its less confusing to use a combo like Ctrl+Esc than anything that > > uses Spacebar--to shutdown a VM. But maybe a letter combo is better. VBox > > uses Host+Q. > > According to the thing you linked, they use Host+H, and Host+Q for > "Close" (presumably closing a window). > > What about Ctrl+S for [S]hutdown? (/ [S]top) > > > OTOH, its common practice to offer a shortcut key for stopping VMs, as VBox > > and VMWare Workstation do. Inactivity timers... I've yet to see that for a > > desktop runtime environment (essentially what an AppVM is). I think that's > > because its just better UX to have the user exercise their intention on a > > case by case basis for this function. > > There are *MANY* ways in which Qubes is different (better) than the > more traditional (primitive) VM managers. We are a whole integrated > desktop experience, not merely a way to run VMs. I think it's only > natural that some things make sense for Qubes and not for those other > softwares with quite different use cases. > > > Anyway, enough bikeshed painting. It's just keyboard shortcuts... > > Unless someone very seriously disagrees, I propose we proceed with the > plan proposed at the top of the thread with the following differences: > 1. remove shortcut for Start VM > 2. add Ctrl+P for Pause VM > 3. something not-space for Shutdown (Ctrl+S?) > > And move the auto-shutdown / shutdown-current-VM discussion to a > different thread, because it is a different problem. Here's a > shutdown-focused-vm PoC [1] based on my open-terminal-in-focused-vm > script [2]. Just bind it to whatever keystroke you want using your > favorite mechanism for doing so is. Xfce provides a suitable > convenient one already. > > [1]: https://gist.github.com/jpouellet/d57fb4e98ca3f5ad4ac0ec2596d18154 > [2]: https://gist.github.com/jpouellet/0f74459699433cabc26c389caf36b455 > > --
I feel like I'm intruding on a personal quarrel here, but there's a bikeshed in need of some paint. So - I like keyboard shortcuts: I use them all the time using the Meta key. I don't use Qubes Manager much, so mine are based on Xfce and custom scripts/commands. That said, I think the proposed actions are sensible, but the proposed shortcuts are not. This isnt because they remind me of some other application, but because they are ALREADY USED in other applications. In my experience, "naive" users of qubes get the hang of it quite quickly, but still will sometimes find themselves typing in to the wrong window. If this has never happened to you then you are better than me. The problem with using shortcuts that already have a place in the lexicon is that it would be relatively easy for them to be grabbed by the Manager window instead of the intended target window, with obvious unexpected consequences. That's why I would strongly advocate the use of a Qubes specific key, like Virtualbox does. Can I suggest that you take advice from one of the UX folk before you take a final decision? unman -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-devel" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-devel/20161221230245.GA19689%40thirdeyesecurity.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
