Am 10.11.2016 um 00:24 schrieb Marek Marczykowski-Górecki:
> On Tue, Nov 08, 2016 at 10:37:02PM +0100, Achim Patzner wrote:
> > Maybe I should have added the (obviously in my eyes obvious) argument:
> > The current update-procedures are launched by a GUI-application and then
> > open a window that is asking questions which need keyboard interaction.
> > And in some cases the default answer (at least in Fedora) (which is
> > making things worse – at least the default Xterm is looking different
> > for Fedora and Debian) is not what you want. Or at least not what I want
> > (aborting the update). Now someone wants to add another bloody
> > interactive option that will require at least me to select the
> > non-default option.
> I'd like to change this default - indeed it is very confusing, but I
> don't know how.

Only be recompiling it. This is hardcoded. I remember a
"Linux-Stammtisch" in the area where the discussion over this topic
nearly led to bloodshed so please avoid supplying patches unless you've
got a black belt in something.

> The only related option is to accept automatically.
> Maybe this is the way to go?

I'm currently living with about 10 Fedora-based templates. I'm usually
updating the fattest, reviewing the list carefully and then go on with
the update. The others are just getting a treatment using qvm-run
(because I am annoyed by all those questions using the Manager). So
using "-y" on the command line would not be exactly what I consider safe
nor secure.

> Personally I like to review list of packages to be updated, but I guess
> most users don't do that.

… until they have been burnt. I just spent hours finding out how I
destroyed my native Arch system until I remembered that I'm EFI booting
without grub and forgot copying the new kernel (which I didn't notice
being installed because I didn't check the f* list) to /boot/efi/EFI/arch.

> I think it's important to give the user some feedback. Fully automated
> updates are somehow broken in most tools[1] - this is why we have this
> terminal window,

I guess I mentioned already that I'm mildly hating someone for using an
xterm in default settings 8-). Although it is looking coool when you're
updating 20 machines at the same time and showing your stamp collection
to someone I've yet to figure out how to use a different font size for it.

> instead of just some progress bar or something even less intrusive.

Sometimes I like the way Ubuntu and the likes are handling things –
until they break something. 8-)

> But automatically shutting down the template (after user have a chance
> to see update feedback) is a good idea. Something like "Press enter to
> shutdown template, or Ctrl-C to just close this window".

I once got into a serious discussion with Jordan Hubbard about the fact
that I really disliked the sudden pop-ups asking for something innocent
like "do you really want to shut down/have your cat slaughtered by
satanists/vote for Trump?" with the least convenient option being the
default while I was busily typing at something (you know that Macs are
used by pushing mice and touching pads; that's why you can remove keys,
one after the other, without any user noticing it).

It's the same with the update process; the keyboard is not flushed
before the "shutdown or not" question so any extraneous return key will
still be in the buffer. Shutting a machine down isn't as bad as messing
up your boot disk (which I did on the Mac by accepting a system update I
would not have accepted if I had time to read the pop-up) but you should
always be careful with users… Their attitude might type first, think later.


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