On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 3:50:18 PM UTC, cooloutac wrote:
> On Saturday, August 5, 2017 at 11:31:27 AM UTC-4, PR wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > 
> > I think it makes sense to concentrate more on what we (different user 
> > types/groups) would like to see, instead of having some kind of 'flame war' 
> > GUI vs. Terminal.
> > 
> > 
> > The good thing was always that you can built very complicated workflows 
> > using  the terminal/bash scrips make life easier and that you can have a 
> > GUI for 80% of the standard tasks for "normal users", which are more 
> > interested in using their computer as a tool instead of tweaking around.
> > 
> > 
> > We can and should have both:
> > 1) API/terminal commands for 'advanced users' and
> > 2) a simple GUI for normal users who just want to use a PC that protects 
> > their privacy somewhat better than their current Windows 10 Laptop.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Am 05.08.2017 5:02 nachm. schrieb "cooloutac" <raah...@gmail.com>:
> > 
> > 
> > The forever problem of linux,  is the self fulfilling prophecies from 
> > people who want to feel superior over others. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Disagree, I think that those people are just faster using the terminal.
> > And those users are technically skilled and have at least basic knowledge 
> > about an operating system.
> > 
> > 
> > I agree with cooloutac that Qubes has a benefit if it can be used for 
> > regular tasks without touching the terminal.
> > Even when using Windows lots of people use Laptops that have been setup by 
> > experienced users and then handover to them.
> > They don't bother with tweaking the system, so simplifying the use of Qubes 
> > would help to get those users on board.
> > 
> > 
> > BUT:
> > Important point is that additional security/privacy has most time a price 
> > that it add a small layer of complexity/less usability for the user.
> > But Qubes is doing a great job to reduce this overhead.
> > 
> > 
> > As far as I have understand the Qubes team statement, it seems that the 
> > concentrate more on the Qubes Core stuff and having the API/Terminal 
> > commands, someone can still write a GUI for Qubes like Qubes Manager.
> > 
> > 
> > Honestly I don't understand why it is that hard to Port Qubes Manager over 
> > to Qubes 4, so that the user can choose:
> > 
> > 
> > - terminal 
> > - old Qubes manager with maybe a reduced feature set
> > - new Qubes widgets
> > - ... ?
> > 
> > 
> > This topic reminds me about the vi vs. emacs discussions. What the heck? I 
> > use both ;-)
> > Or the new "Ribbon Bar" from Microsoft which was also not that accepted in 
> > the beginning.
> > 
> > 
> > - PhR
> 
> there is no versus anything, noone is asking to get rid of the terminal?
> 
> This is nothing like vi vs emac discussions.   what?

hmm, I think he was referring to the earlier posts far up above, and not you 
specifically. 
But he makes a good point in that matter, both are important if we want to find 
motivation and resources to make systems that not only reach the advanced 
users, but also reaching the everyday users.
One cannot afford not to take the other seriously, both need each others in 
modern PC systems, especially if we want to survive the next big thing, the 
next platform coming after smartphones, which is partially already happening 
right now. There won't be a laptop, desktop or tablet for Linux to live on, if 
we don't take emerging technologies seriously. The time to stand together is 
now, and making whole systems that take in both the advanced and everyday 
users, would be a game changer.

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