On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 3:02:15 PM UTC+1, steve.coleman wrote:
> I would say that if somebody has such an email in their out box, and you 
> know it was removed, then contact Google and resolve the issue rather 
> than just complaining here. No offense meant by this, its just that you 
> have exactly what they need to tack down the problem sitting in your 
> outbox. How on earth would they benefit by randomly deleting your mail 
> on purpose? Their business it learning about you, to better market you, 
> not pissing people off. Deleting legitimate information about you and 
> what you like to talk about is exactly what they want to keep on file. 
> Deleting it make so sense in their business model.
> The explanation I would offer is their infantile 
> data-collecting/spam-eliminating AI filter has been mistrained, and 
> needs to be slapped silly by a human and corrected. The problem we have 
> is that much of the "logic" they use these days is due to machine 
> learning algorithms that one can not even ask the model why it did 
> something completely stupid. It's merely the result of it learning the 
> wrong logic from what data we gave it during the "training process".
> There was once a DoD contractor who jumped on the AI bandwagon back in 
> the 70's, who trained the system to pick out tanks hiding in camouflage. 
> It did great, so they wanted to show the top brass. Before doing so they 
> took new photographs because the old ones were quite worn, and the new 
> photos flunked the test. What the system learned was cloudy vs sunny 
> days, not tanks and no-tanks. Filtering emails based on the same "logic" 
> is bound to have its problems.
> So, don't attribute to malice where it can be the result of complete 
> incompetents in machine learning. This unfortunately is the reality of 
> the 'new software' era we now live in. Make them get it right if you 
> disapprove.
> btw - If this email response to you disappears then I will want answers 
> from them myself. The more people who point out actual instances of 
> missing legitimate emails, the sooner they will be forced to reevaluate 
> their own methods of verification of this kind of ML mistraining.
> On 03/12/18 02:55, 799 wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Am 12.03.2018 7:40 vorm. schrieb "Yuraeitha" <yuraei...@gmail.com 
> > <mailto:yuraei...@gmail.com>>:
> > 
> >     This is getting ridiculousness, another two posts automatically
> >     removed straight after or shortly after posting, it's inhuman
> >     speeds, it is certainly google-bots pretty censorship handy-work non
> >     normal content/language.
> > 
> > 
> > Honestly I haven't understand why Qubes Team is hosting it's Mailinglist 
> > on Google.
> > 
> > [...] Google collects and maintains information about your account 
> > activity, including the groups that you join or manage, lists of other 
> > members or invitees in the groups, messages or topics you track, custom 
> > pages you create or edit, ratings you make, and your preferred settings 
> > when using Google Groups [...]
> > 
> > I am sure that there are solutions where a Mailinglist can be hosted and 
> > as others have suggested maybe run a forum.
> > 
> > Maybe https://savannah.gnu.org/ ?
> > 
> > [799]
> > 
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First, I'll apologize if I sound a bit grumpy today, it's not on you, and I 
hope you will remember that below, even though I strongly disagree with you, 
it's nonetheless nothing personal.

Originally the off-topic I made was secondary mentions, my on-topic was the 
reason for posting, which was to make others aware why their post are deleted 
too here on Qubes users mailing list. I actually searched for an existing 
thread on it, but I found none, hence why I made this post for future users who 
use the search system for this issue, and not just the current users.

In regards to contacting google, it will be useless. I already know the core 
issue at hand, I don't need to write to google, because it won't solve anything 
by doing that, google won't change it, it's not a bug, it's a system pushed 
forward by political movement. This is google increasing their bot censorship 
from that movement, but scre*wed up in the process. These censorship systems 
are something that is hard to do without building democratic censorship, but on 
the other hand it's very easy to use them for just that, intentional 
censorship. It's only a few clicks away to prevent democracy, and who decides 
what is censored anyway? and who controls who controls them? and who controls 
the future leaders who might someday go rogue on the democratic system which is 
only a few clicks away from becoming locked down and controlled? This is an 
anti-democratic political movement, which google is enforcing. This is a wide 
known problem, I'd expect everyone here knows this issue, which is inflamed by 
i.e. American politicians who wants to force organizations to monitor all 
conversations and make automatic censorship systems. The problem isn't 
something you can fix by contacting google, you can only fix it by ditching 
google altogether for someone that doesn't try do censorship. While the issue 
happened probably due to a bug, it doesn't change that everything we write here 
is censored, hence it doesn't matter if we fix the bug or not, it just puts 
focus on why these hidden automatic censorships are a bad idea to begin with. 

This is a poor political decision made by people that doesn't understand 
technology, and who doesn't care about democracy. They are control freaks who 
think they can make everything work through strict rules, and at that point, 
you build the internet of a dictatorship nation, then you only need the nation 
to become dictatorship as well. In an era where internet is becoming synonymous 
with society, it's dangerous for a democracy to have an internet of a 
dictators, it'll only shift people into becoming blind followers of a 
dictatorship system.

Censoring content, will only shift power to a centralized location, you cannot 
expect a democracy to keep working if it's eaten up slowly by mechanics that 
prevents a democracy to work. This is just one part destroying democracy, we 
don't need to tell google to fix the bug, we need to tell them to remove this 
censorship entirely.

Furthermore I've seen other people get their mails deleted recently, it's 
building up as of late, and this message was an attempt to reach out so that we 
can increase awareness of the issue, rather than leaving people with 

The deleted posts don't tell anyone if googled deleted them, or if the person 
deleted them, which is also a big issue, but telling google to fix that, won't 
fix that they censor everything anyway.

This, as [799] pointed out, can also serve as a discussion as to why we use 
something anti-freedom like Google, when it isn't aligning with Qubes core 
values. That's why all this is much more on-topic, that you might at first 
think about it.

I'll have to copy/paste this message, just in case it gets deleted (once again).

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