On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 3:29 AM Ted Hardie <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 25, 2024 at 7:58 AM Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> As to why TLS 1.3 specifically, I recall early on asking for schemes that
>> were more IoT friendly.
>>
>>
> You may recall that Google QUIC did not use TLS.  If memory serves me
> correctly that was partly because Google wanted 0-RTT resumption and a few
> other capabilities that TLS did not provide at the time.  When those
> facilities were added to TLS in TLS 1.3, it made sense to re-use TLS rather
> than maintain a separate crypto stack.
>

This is my recollection as well. The Google QUIC crypto handshake protocol
was designed knowing that it would be replaced. The doc (
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g5nIXAIkN_Y-7XJW5K45IblHd_L2f5LTaDUDwvZ5L6g/edit?tab=t.0)
calls out that the protocol was destined to die. It was created because
there wasn't something that did 0-RTT at that point, but it would be a
feature of TLS 1.3.

>
> I no longer work for Google, so I don't have access to my notes on this;
> you may want to confirm with Ian Swett or one of the folks who was both
> there at the time and is still a Googler.
>
> regards,
>
> Ted
>
>
>
>> The consensus at the time was that encryption is important for
>> ossification prevention and non-encryption was a deal breaker, as has been
>> explained in this thread. However, there was nothing preventing other
>> encryption schemes than TLS and this could be added in other later QUIC
>> versions separately, but for QUIC 1.0, IoT would not be a priority in part
>> to get something out of the door to finalize 1.0, and in part because TLS
>> 1.3 allows for negotiation in case some encryption turns out weak.
>>
>> As to network transparency for troubleshooting, various tooling has been
>> mentioned but there are header bits explicitly exposed to measure pacing
>> and roundtrip of encrypted packets modulating a signal that can be
>> observed, which was deemed sufficient after some testing, although there
>> was a push for more insight operator side of things.
>>
>> QUIC load balancing protocol was also discussed, partly in order to avoid
>> early TLS termination. LBs requires access to some confidential information
>> in order to route packets correctly. I have not studied this closely, but I
>> guess one could introduce a load balancer to gain more insights?
>>
>> Mikkel
>>
>>

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