I realize the problem now, and you are right aov is wrong. It seams that it was completely wrong to use the transect in a fixed formula, since my Trasects are labeled A to P, and A to D is in one mainplot, E-H in another, I-L an a third, and M-P in a fourth. In this case lme, with random variables for Transect is better. Thank you for the help.
Best regards, Petter Peter Dalgaard <pda...@gmail.com> skrev : > On Nov 30, 2010, at 13:58 , Hedberg Peter wrote: > > >> aov_data > > Call: > > aov(formula = Species1 ~ Site + Obstacle + Treatment + > > as.factor(Dist_Obstacle) + > > as.factor(Dist_start) + Transect + Mainplot + Obsplot) > > > > Terms: > > Site Obstacle Treatment as.factor(Dist_Obstacle) > > as.factor(Dist_start) Transect Obsplot Residuals > > Sum of Squares 2143.984 446.274 340.042 736.073 > > 173.707 800.270 4014.378 17238.625 > > Deg. of Freedom 2 1 1 4 > > 3 10 60 271 > > > > Residual standard error: 7.97566 > > 27 out of 109 effects not estimable > > Estimated effects may be unbalanced > > > > > > > > My question is why do I get "effects not estimable", and "effects may be > > unbalanced). I have checked the data and it is balanced. > > Unfortunately, your attachment did not contain the data, but the sum of the > Deg. of Freedom above is 352, suggesting that the observation count is 353, > which is prime, so I find it difficult to believe that you have balanced data > in the sense of a complete factorial design, even for a subset of your > factors. A complete factorial with those DF would take more than 160000 > observations! > > I suspect that aov() is simply the wrong tool for these data. lm() will do > it, but watch out for the aliased effects. > > -- > Peter Dalgaard > Center for Statistics, Copenhagen Business School > Solbjerg Plads 3, 2000 Frederiksberg, Denmark > Phone: (+45)38153501 > Email: pd....@cbs.dk Priv: pda...@gmail.com ___________________________________ NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net ______________________________________________ R-help@r-project.org mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
