On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 21:52 -0500, Duncan Murdoch wrote: > On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 00:55:53 +0100, Carlos Javier Gil Bellosta > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >Over the years, while learning C, Java or Python, I have found very > >useful a few IRC channels on those languages where one could get (and > >provide!!) peer-to-peer support. Should a rather informal, open and > >publicited one exist for R, I believe it could channel many of these > >basic questions and, probably, many others some novices do not dare ask. > > As far as I know, there is currently no IRC channel on R. Why not set > one up? (I've got no idea what is involved in that.) You'll need to > attract participants to it. Various ways are: > > - announce on this mailing list when you have created it. > - put a note about it in your signature > - use it, and be helpful to other users on it > - get a mention of it on an appropriate r-project.org page. > > I've never used IRC and wouldn't be likely to be a participant (in > general I dislike live online chat), but to each his own. > > Duncan Murdoch
It is relatively easy to set up an IRC channel. One needs to select an IRC network and register and configure a channel on that network and then make that information available to a target audience. The key is that someone or multiple folks would need to be designated as channel "ops", who in effect become the moderators for the channel and can act accordingly when required. There are various IRC clients for multiple operating systems that would allow for relatively ubiquitous access. In my mind, a significant part of the problem with IRC however, is that knowledge is lost. There is no searchable log or archive of the conversations and the exchanges that take place. Thus, there is no way for others to take advantage of the knowledge sharing and this only serves to perpetuate the repetition of queries and responses in that environment. Even worse, as the traffic level increases, many of the exchanges tend to move from the public channel to DCC chats, because the main channel traffic becomes impossible to follow. Thus, even those who may log in to the channel as potential new users, can eventually find that there may be a minimal amount of traffic in the main channel, as many of the conversations are now taking place in private one-on-one or group chats. While the above is clearly a generalization, I have experienced it personally over the years in a variety of IRC channels. It can become quite frustrating. Part of the problem with attempting to separate out "basic" questions to a new list is how does one define "basic"? Where is the line, or more likely the grey buffer zone, between what may be clearly basic versus something that ultimately becomes more involved. How does one separate out what may seem to be a basic plot query at the outset, when that query is actually entangled with the more involved aspects of the plot/predict methods applicable to a linear regression model or how data needs to be structured for a particular plot function? These present difficult challenges and choices, many of which have been discussed here more than once, at least over the past three plus years that I have been in this community. That does not mean that a single, highly motivated person or group of folks cannot pursue an alternative venue for sharing knowledge apart from these lists. That is quite common in most communities. Indeed, this is the basis for the add-on packages in CRAN, Contributed Documentation, the various GUI's that are available and the Bioconductor group as examples. In each case, the basic functionality of R has been substantially and meaningfully extended by individuals and/or groups who defined a need and took it upon themselves to fulfill it. Those additions have been made available back to the community at large, which is consistent with the overall philosophy of open source initiatives and the selfless desire to make contributions available to aid others. As another example, how may different independent online support resources are there for the various Linux distributions between online forums, FAQ's, wiki's, e-mail lists, personal web sites and Usenet groups? Some are "official" resources, while others are created independently by users for the benefit of other users. And...if one wonders whether 'basic' questions get asked in other communities, one only need review a message that was posted to the main Fedora list yesterday, which had a subject line of: "Does Fedora include Linux?" The key question in the body of the message was: "So i was wondering does the Fedora Download include a OS (operating system) with the download? Such as like Linux?" The author of this message BTW is a 'webmaster' by his sig. You can imagine what the range of responses to that question was. There are several web sites already created by useRs that are available which are highly complementary to these lists and to the main R web site. There is nothing to prevent folks from continuing to advance those types of activities and making those resources known to the community at large. If those independent resources serve to advance the sharing of knowledge with respect to R, terrific! That is what this is all about, users helping other users. Ultimately, it is likely that each such resource will attract some particular subset of self-selected participants, perhaps based upon skill level, the nature of the participants and/or specific areas of interest. In this way, users can locate and participate in one or more support resources that best meets their particular requirements. To make that a reality however, much like the recent discussion on documentation, will take one or more persons who are motivated to make it happen. Hopefully, some will step up and do just that. It is unreasonable and incredibly unfair to expect that R Core can or will do it all. Given the selfless sacrifices that they have made to bring R to its current state, it is incredible that they continue to contribute to these lists as much as they do. One might want to keep that in mind when on the receiving end of the occasional terse RTFM reply. Best regards to all, Marc Schwartz ______________________________________________ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
