> From: Vadim Ogranovich > > I guess it depends on what kind of data analysis one does. R > is designed > and best suited for the analysis that starts with a data frame which > fits in 1/10th of your computer RAM. R programming is then mostly > limited to writing small convenience functions for better > presentation, > visualization, etc. Or alternatively one implements a new fitting > procedure/algorithm and applies it to the data. > > Now things begin to look harder when you have 200G of data > and 8G of RAM > and still need to find "structure" in the data. You need to > pre-process > the data, recover from *unexpected* failures, store and retrieve > intermediate data sets, etc. This requires qualities of a good > general-purpose programming language. Note, we do not use R > to program a > system, we do data analysis so we should be considered R *users*. > In my view, and the experience of the colleague of my > confirms it, R has > a long way to go to become a wrinkle-free general purpose language. > > To your specific question, why good (C++) programmers should not > struggle with R? Because they have the skills to plan > sizeable programs > in any wrinkle-free language.
Could you please define "wrinkle-free language", or give an (some?) example? Andy > Hope this makes my earier comments more clear, > Vadim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Berton Gunter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:55 AM > > To: Vadim Ogranovich; 'Thomas Lumley'; 'Rod Montgomery' > > Cc: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [R] R annoyances > > > > Vadim et.al: > > > > I do not care to comment one way or the other about R's > > "irregularities.' > > But I am puzzled by your statement that a "good C++ > > programmer is struggling with R." Why should they not > > struggle?! R is primarily a language for data analysis, > > statistics, and graphics. I do not understand why someone who is a > > C++ programmer would be expected to have the knowledge and > > experience to > > C++ be > > a "data miner" and would not therefore struggle to deal with > > the statistical and data analysis issues that are > > deliberately at the heart of many of R's programming conventions. > > > > Is there something here that I am missing, or is this yet > > another example of Frank Harrell's "instant brain surgeon" > commentary? > > > > -- Bert Gunter > > Genentech Non-Clinical Statistics > > South San Francisco, CA > > > > "The business of the statistician is to catalyze the > > scientific learning process." - George E. P. Box > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vadim > > > Ogranovich > > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:40 AM > > > To: Thomas Lumley; Rod Montgomery > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > Subject: RE: [R] R annoyances > > > > > > I think the flaw in this reasoning is that programmers are not > > > considered users. IMO, making a better language is beneficial for > > > users. > > > > > > I am now watching how a new colleague of mine, a very good C++ > > > programmer turning into a data miner, is struggling w/ many > > > "irregularities" of R. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > Thomas Lumley > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 9:39 AM > > > > To: Rod Montgomery > > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [R] R annoyances > > > > > > > > On Thu, 19 May 2005, Rod Montgomery wrote: > > > > > Thomas Lumley wrote: > > > > >> This one is actually a FAQ, > > > > >> mtx[,1,drop=FALSE] > > > > >> > > > > >> -thomas > > > > >> > > > > > I wonder whether there is, or should be, a way to set FALSE > > > > as the default? > > > > > > > > > > > > > There shouldn't be (apart from editing the code), because > > you really > > > > don't want something this basic to be unpredictable. > > > > > > > > There have been discussions at several times about whether > > > > drop=FALSE or drop=TRUE should be the default. The decision has > > > > always been that programmers can cope either way, but > that users > > > > probably don't expect mtx[,1] to be a vector, and that they > > > > definitely don't expect mtx[1,1] to be a matrix. > > > > > > > > -thomas > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > [email protected] mailing list > > > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > > > PLEASE do read the posting guide! > > > > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > [email protected] mailing list > > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > > PLEASE do read the posting guide! > > > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > [email protected] mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide! > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > > ______________________________________________ [email protected] mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
