Thanks Prof. Bivand for your considerations about name and approach. We will debate your points on our next meeting about the project.
Additionally, I want to thank you for your extensive contribution to the field. Without your packages and publications (and from others), this project would be unthinkable. Best regards, Raphael Saldanha > Em 12 de jul. de 2021, à(s) 06:16, Roger Bivand <roger.biv...@nhh.no> > escreveu: > > Perhaps it is just my connection, but it is not possible to load any data, so > I cannot evaluate the other components in practice. > > I do however think that you need to acknowledge the results of Piras and > Prucha, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.regsciurbeco.2014.03.002, and try to point > out the dangers of pre-testing, rather than estimating the most inclusive > model first, and simplifying from there. > > Roger > > On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, Roger Bivand wrote: > >> Returning to the "Tobler" shiny app: >> >> The main serious weakness is the name and the approach. It is not and has >> never been the case that "Everything is related to everything else, but near >> things are more related than distant things." This is and has always been an >> oversimplification, disguising the underlying entitation/support problem. >> Are the units of observation appropriate for the scale of the unobserved >> spatial process? >> >> Tobler (1970) https://doi.org/10.2307/143141 was published in the same SI as >> Olsson (1970) https://doi.org/10.2307/143140 (Olsson precedes Tobler), but >> Olsson does grasp the important point that spatial autocorrelation is not >> immanent in spatial phenomena, but often is engendered by inappropriate >> entitation, by omitted variables and/or inappropriate functional form. The >> key quote from Olsson is on p. 228: >> >> "The existence of such autocorrelations makes it tempting to agree with >> Tobler (1970, 236 [my interpolation, the original refers to a conference >> paper]) that 'everything is related to everything else, but near things are >> more related than distant things.' On the other hand, the fact that the >> autocorrelations seem to hide systematic specification errors suggests that >> the elevation of this statement to the status of 'the first law of >> geography' is at best premature. At worst, the statement may represent the >> spatial variant of the post hoc fallacy, which would mean that >> coinincidence has been mistaken for a causal relation." >> >> The status of the "first law" is very similar to the belief that John Snow >> induced the cause of cholera as water-borne from a map. It may be a good way >> of selling GIS, but it isn't accurate; Snow had a strong working >> microbiological hypothesis prior to visiting Soho, and the map was prepared >> after the Broad street pump was disabled as documentation that the >> hypothesis held (see https://doi.org/10.1016/s0140-6736(00)02442-9 Brody et >> al. 2000). >> >> So the framing of the shiny app is unfortunate, and spatial econometrics is >> not a toolbox, rather a way of loooking at mis-specification when space is >> involved, I think. >> >> Hope this isn't too critical, >> >> Roger >> >> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021, Raphael Saldanha wrote: >> >>> Estimado Spencer, >>> >>> Thanks for your kind words. Actually, that construction is not standard in >>> Portuguese also (although that does not sound pedant or with some bad >>> intention for our ears). I revised the text three times and used an app >>> for grammar correction before sending. Anyway, it was a mistake by all >>> means. >>> >>> To learn Spatial Econometrics and other fields require from us additional >>> efforts. There is just a few books or materials in Portuguese. But I try >>> to approach this difficult as an opportunity to learn. >>> >>> Indeed, one of the reasons for building the app was to facilitate the use >>> of the methods for people that are learning R. *Professor Eduardo and I* >>> teach annually a course on that field and we face this challenge. With the >>> pandemics and Zoom classes, we hope that the app and our scripts will help >>> the students to learn R. >>> >>> Um forte abraço, >>> >>> Raphael Saldanha >>> >>>> Em 8 de jul. de 2021, à(s) 08:45, Spencer Graves >>>> <spencer.gra...@prodsyse.com> escreveu: >>>> >>>> Estimado Raphael: >>>> >>>> I don't know any Portuguese either, and I'm very grateful that you've >>>> made the effort to ask this group in a language not your own. >>>> >>>> In primary school, I learned that constructions like, "Me and >>>> Professor ..." too often sounded like, "Mean Professor ...". >>>> >>>> Un fuerte abrazo ("A big hug", as a Uruguayan man whom I had not >>>> previously met ended a letter inviting me to talk at a conference). >>>> >>>> Spencer Graves >>>> >>>> On 7/8/21 5:32 AM, Raphael Saldanha wrote: >>>>> No offense taken. Thanks for the remark and opportunity to learn. >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Raphael >>>>>> Em 7 de jul. de 2021, à(s) 23:20, Rolf Turner <r.tur...@auckland.ac.nz> >>>>>> escreveu: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 18:09:50 -0300 >>>>>>> Raphael Saldanha <rfsalda...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello all! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Me and Professor Eduardo Almeida (UFJF, Brazil) are creating an R >>>>>>> Shiny app for Spatial Econometric classes. >>>>>> >>>>>> <SNIP> >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope that you won't find this comment offensive, but I could not >>>>>> resist sending it to you, since I am rather fanatical (pedantic?) about >>>>>> correct English usage. >>>>>> >>>>>> The expression "Me and Professor Eduardo Almeida" is both (a) bad >>>>>> grammar and (b) bad form. (a) Instead of the pronoun "Me" (accusative >>>>>> or >>>>>> objective case) you should use "I" (nominative or subjective case), >>>>>> since >>>>>> this expression is the subject of the sentence. (b) It is "bad form" >>>>>> (it sounds vaguely self-promoting) to put a first person pronoun >>>>>> before the >>>>>> names of others to which it is linked. You should say "Professor >>>>>> Eduardo Almeida and I are creating ....". >>>>>> >>>>>> I realise that English is surely a second language for you, and your >>>>>> English is infinitely better than my non-existent Portuguese. Your >>>>>> English is actually quite good, probably better than that of many >>>>>> native English speakers. Nevertheless the expression that you use is >>>>>> not correct and you should strive to avoid such usage. >>>>>> >>>>>> Again let me express the hope that you won't take offence at this >>>>>> comment. >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Rolf Turner >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow >>>>>> Department of Statistics >>>>>> University of Auckland >>>>>> Phone: +64-9-373-7599 ext. 88276 >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> R-sig-Geo mailing list >>>>>> R-sig-Geo@r-project.org >>>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-geo >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> R-sig-Geo mailing list >>>>> R-sig-Geo@r-project.org >>>>> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-geo >> >> > > -- > Roger Bivand > Emeritus Professor > Department of Economics, Norwegian School of Economics, > Postboks 3490 Ytre Sandviken, 5045 Bergen, Norway. > e-mail: roger.biv...@nhh.no > https://orcid.org/0000-0003-2392-6140 > https://scholar.google.no/citations?user=AWeghB0AAAAJ&hl=en
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