So, is this an offer to contribute an improved data editor to the OS X GUI? We could certainly use one, it would be much appreciated.
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:44 AM, John Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thank you for the responses to my email. I'd like to further the > discussion a little because I think it may be productive. > > I'll take major points from the responses and deal with them one by one > although not necessarily in order. > > With regard to my colleague's willingness to learn a command line > program. She is an extremely intelligent person and has learned Latex to > typeset her documents - no question she is able to learn. But she > requires some evidence that the program is worth learning. To her mind > and to mine, simple things should be simple to do and complex things > made easier by any software. My point here is that entering in data via > the data editor failed. Whether or not that is the best way or the right > way is irrelevant. R offers an option to enter small data sets via an > editor - the edit function. In the X11 interface and the Windows > interface to the edit function, the functionality is present. In the mac > editor it is not. I agree that the GUI interface to the command line is > nice and functional and the programmers are to be applauded. The fact > remains that the data editor in the Mac interface is inadequate. When > someone tries a program for the first time and a simple function fails > then there is no incentive to go further. > > > As regards the best way to enter data. I think statisticians are used > to investigators coming to them with very precious post processed data. > Consequently data entry is handled using programs that emphasize data > integrity, security and organisation. Hence the use of Excel (sic!!!) to > handle data for export to R. > > In reality in lab work, data abounds. The scientist performs ad hoc > experiments daily and tries to see what is going on. Sometimes, as in > this case, he/she wants to find out if a rough <preliminary> experiment > is showing a difference. For the scientist, the ability to enter data > quickly and see if the difference they think they are seeing is real > <is> important. When the experiments have settled into a routine and > data collection becomes part of a protocol, the data should and does go > into a data entry program ( a database with data entry front end or a > spreadsheet). That is the data the statistician sees and has been > collected with great care and expense, but it is not the only kind of > data the scientist deals with > > Yes the t-test could be done on a calculator, but few scientists in the > biomedical sciences actually use a calculator for a t-test. They all use > a computer based stats program. To my mind, if they do it in R, two > things are accomplished; a broader adoption of R and the preliminary > data are in R to be added to and if difficulties arise to be handed to > an analyst who also uses R. (Please don't go off topic and tell me they > should have seen a statistician before starting; a.) I know the reasons > and b.) it isn't always necessary) > > Mathematical statisticians regard data as holy. Scientists who collect > the data know it to be dirty, unkempt and often scribbled on pieces of > paper or on the margins of notebooks -especially when the experiments > are just getting started. Not all data are important. Many experiments > simply confirm that there is no difference due to a treatment. The > ability to quickly enter small data sets and check to see if there > really is a difference is important to investigators. Fisher knew that, > so did Student/Gosset hence the development of small sample statistics. > I'm suggesting that if 'R' wants to address the needs of scientists, a > method for entry of small data sets is important. The command line is > fine. I use it and I am happy with it. But R <offers> a data editor. > Those who want to use it should be able to. This does not mean a full > blown spreadsheet interface. I agree that would be stupid. All I am > suggesting is that the Mac data editor be functional. The Unix and > Windows ones already are. > > > > > -- > John Walker > Assistant Professor of Cardiology > Department of Medicine > University of Colorado Health Sciences Center > 4200 E. Ninth Ave B130 > BRB Rm 351 > Denver CO 80262 > > ph 303 315 0103 > > _______________________________________________ > R-SIG-Mac mailing list > [email protected] > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac > -- Byron Ellis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) "Oook" -- The Librarian _______________________________________________ R-SIG-Mac mailing list [email protected] https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-sig-mac
