Great! I think I get moderation messages too, and I'm happy to help out in letting people in.
Robby On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 12:25 PM Sage Gerard <s...@sagegerard.com> wrote: > Both racket-users and racket-dev have just now been changed to "Anyone > can ask." > > On 1/12/22 1:17 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 1:14 PM Sage Gerard <s...@sagegerard.com> wrote: > >> Yes. I assumed was that (b) was not true, since I thought volunteers > >> were hard to come by for most community tasks. "Ask only" makes more > >> sense if someone can be found and made available at any time. > >> > >> All: I normally wait for a go-ahead from a quorum before applying > >> changes like this. If I don't need to wait, then please tell me. > > I think if you're good with this approach, you should move forward with > it. > > > > Sam > > > >> Sam: You mentioned someone got a 404 from an invite link. 404s sometimes > >> disguise permission issues, so I suspect that switching to "ask to join" > >> will make that problem go away too. > >> > >> On 1/12/22 1:00 PM, Sam Tobin-Hochstadt wrote: > >> > >>> Here's my suggestion: we switch to "ask to join" on Google Groups. I > >>> think that will notify all the moderators, and thus (a) more people > >>> can potentially respond (eg, I think I currently get those emails too) > >>> and (b) if someone can no longer take on this responsibility, it's > >>> easy to have someone else step up. The alternative where we specify a > >>> specific email requires potentially changing that email address when > >>> the responsibility changes. > >>> > >>> Does that seem like a reasonable approach? > >>> > >>> Sam > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 2:30 PM Sage Gerard <s...@sagegerard.com> > wrote: > >>>> No no, that was helpful, thank you. We do need to figure this part > out. > >>>> > >>>> On 1/11/22 2:22 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Sorry, I probably shouldn't have jumped in here. I'm happy with > whatever you folks decide is best! > >>>> > >>>> Robby > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:09 PM Sage Gerard <s...@sagegerard.com> > wrote: > >>>>> Makes sense. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'll repeat one key difference in the context of Google Groups > >>>>> > >>>>> Ask to join > >>>>> > >>>>> Racket volunteer must be available for vetting requests, on > receiving them. Member starts process in Google Groups > >>>>> > >>>>> Invite only > >>>>> > >>>>> Racket volunteer may vet first, but must initiate contact with > member. As Sam said, strangers can't start that process. > >>>>> > >>>>> If you publish an email to request invites, then the process is > going to be "ask to join" no matter what, so the mailing list configuration > is relevant for a different reason. Do we want members to start the process > in Google Groups, or by sending an email to a fixed address? > >>>>> > >>>>> On 1/11/22 1:51 PM, Robby Findler wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Probably people find out about the mailing list by the website, > right? We could post an email address or two there where asks should go? > >>>>> > >>>>> Robby > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 12:41 PM Sam Tobin-Hochstadt < > sa...@indiana.edu> wrote: > >>>>>> One thing to note here: it's now not possible to _request_ to join > the > >>>>>> list. If someone wants to join the list, they have to know someone > who > >>>>>> is already a member and ask them to join. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> It looks like another option is "Anyone on the web can ask" to join. > >>>>>> It's not immediately clear who gets the emails when people ask, but > >>>>>> this seems like it might be a good intermediate position. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sam > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 12:32 PM Sage Gerard <s...@sagegerard.com> > wrote: > >>>>>>> Alright, thanks to all of you for the quick replies. As of this > writing, the list has been reconfigured to create an explicit perimeter > between the non-members and members. The public can no longer let > themselves in. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Not totally out of the woods yet. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Someone please confirm if you can invite others using Members page > -> "Add Member". If not, then please follow up with me. > >>>>>>> This model can be compromised by someone going rogue and inviting > a bunch of spammers. I'm expecting that our communal trust is high enough > to make this unlikely. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Considering the risk profile seems less scary, disregard request > to delete my emails. :) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On 12/18/21 3:02 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> +2! And many thanks. (I was personally spared this spam until very > recently. No clue why) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> — Matthias > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Dec 18, 2021, at 2:55 PM, Robby Findler < > ro...@cs.northwestern.edu> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> +1! Thank you. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Robby > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 18, 2021 at 1:43 PM Matthew Flatt <mfl...@cs.utah.edu> > wrote: > >>>>>>>> The "members" option sounds right to me. Thanks for tracking down > a way > >>>>>>>> to improve the situation! > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> At Sat, 18 Dec 2021 19:35:23 +0000, Sage Gerard wrote: > >>>>>>>>> Core team, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Sam asked me to issue bans for a troublesome spammer. I've done > so, even > >>>>>>>>> just today. I understand I need quorum for larger decisions. > This is why > >>>>>>>>> I have not yet reconfigured the list to permanently stop the > spammer. > >>>>>>>>> After researching the problem further, I need your urgent > attention. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I found that the spam messages sometimes link to other Google > group > >>>>>>>>> posts affected by the spammer. A recent trail leads to a > >>>>>>>>> comp.lang.python Google message in 2017. I suspect that email > addresses > >>>>>>>>> are scraped in unmoderated lists that freely hand out > membership. After > >>>>>>>>> checking the list settings, I found that this is one of those > lists. I > >>>>>>>>> hypothesize that our email addresses are being scraped and > >>>>>>>>> cross-referenced for use in other unmoderated lists. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> It's one thing to flatly complain about a spammer on this list, > and > >>>>>>>>> another to willingly maintain a transmission vector. We need to > stop > >>>>>>>>> automatically handing out group membership with our current > settings. We > >>>>>>>>> can have ________ issue list memberships. I need you all to fill > in the > >>>>>>>>> blank with "moderators" or "members." I'll translate the settings > >>>>>>>>> accordingly. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Given the holidays, I respect your time. Please reciprocate with > respect > >>>>>>>>> for the urgency this problem creates. I will revoke my own > mailing list > >>>>>>>>> privileges and membership in three weeks, on January 8th, 2022. > I will > >>>>>>>>> leave the settings however they read at the time to prevent > >>>>>>>>> interruption, and request that own messages then be deleted to > limit the > >>>>>>>>> role my email address plays for the spammer. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I am not volunteering to moderate membership applications, and I > am not > >>>>>>>>> commenting on how to verify the impact of possible email leaks. > Between > >>>>>>>>> the Discourse move and (majority?) perspective towards email, > I'm not > >>>>>>>>> sure how I would be useful doing either. If my opinion holds > weight, I'd > >>>>>>>>> advise the answer be "members" so that any available moderators > can > >>>>>>>>> focus on rule breakers while the community grows at a > self-directed speed. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Let me know, and thank you. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups > >>>>>>>>> "Racket Users" group. > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send an > >>>>>>>>> email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >>>>>>>>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/5fa6a8bb-88e4-37c6-f0b9-2ed372bc > >>>>>>>>> e8fe%40sagegerard.com. > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/20211218124300.343%40sirmail.smtps.cs.utah.edu > . > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOMCXH4Zio1%2B96Nj_Zgj2vByetG-%3D8i93%3DLYjTpaBrw8DA%40mail.gmail.com > . > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/649B3011-618B-466E-AE20-B4C13629CA71%40felleisen.org > . > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/ef18d8d4-0305-1cf9-f657-434c19843dc2%40sagegerard.com > . > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAK%3DHD%2BbpujcR6Zsc3n-PY9L-vQUZGJV3uGoNNidu8tE27s_oJQ%40mail.gmail.com > . > >>>>> -- > >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOM8V1kS79gXomX%3DPqMVKLeXM491M60xq7C6dHz%2B0o6bTw%40mail.gmail.com > . > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/d264f944-750a-5329-96f2-1fd2fac7ba31%40sagegerard.com > . > >>>> -- > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAL3TdOO%2BEW5Y_WOLGqX1_%3DJKxGTJhvi5aaRANn%2BfbY0M3hQ92w%40mail.gmail.com > . > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/b7bcf283-77d6-9df5-e2d6-c0729e8a93a2%40sagegerard.com > . > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAK%3DHD%2BabPN9hbbCjxX5rcqPD6qTP17fZ8aFxYnhTggbvgSS6XA%40mail.gmail.com > . > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/17ffe8b4-9277-9f17-5fe3-32a13d0f40b7%40sagegerard.com > . > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Racket Users" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to racket-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/racket-users/CAK%3DHD%2BY%3Dfj45aJS%2BS9QRy3zwkqXtJ7Qngn6BJyhf0-jurLNMWA%40mail.gmail.com > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed 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